Receptacles and suspended ceilings

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here you have all these electricans, contractors and inspectors wanting to do the right thing and the code panel has to take a basic issue such as flex. cords and word it in such a way that there is 8 pages of posts w/o a clear code compliant guide to installation. i still disagree with the above ceilings is no good, but in a floor for info technology equip is ok. i have seen plenty of hack jobs working in these floors with spider webs of cords open to damage but never a problem in a ceiling. don, where did you get the info that per the nec nothing above a ceiling with removable tiles is concealed. whos defining dropped or suspended ceilings? do you see many suspended ceilings w/o removable tiles. who is defining concealed? to me it means hidden. it doesnt differ between permanently hidden or temporarily hidden by a removable object. please tell me where in the code concealed by a removable item such as a tile is good. the words in 400.8(5) were added to cover ceilings with removable tiles as a use not permitted. not permitted uses are concealed by ceilings or a cord located above a dropped ceiling. i see all ceilings covered as uses not permitted.
 
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dnem said:
The following wasn't directed to me but I want to put in my 2 cents anyway.
I checked with a fellow inspector and have returned armed with his thoughts.

Note the following quote has been edited for correctness:
roger said:
Reposted by bikeindy
Using your reasoning, if we are connecting any item in 400.7(A) we could use flexible cords for the following;

(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) To run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) To run run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Attached to building surfaces
(5) Concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code
(7) Where subject to physical damage

because 400.7(A) includes them, is this correct?
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"if we are connecting any item in 400.7(A) we could use flexible cords for the following;"
"because 400.7(A) includes them, is this correct?"

I would answer, Yes, if manufacturers instructions specifically permit it.
And 400.8(4)x says you don't even need a manufacturers OK to attach a cord from a busway to the building surface.

Note the following quote has been edited for correctness:
roger said:
Reposted by bikeindy
If it is correct, why would the ink be wasted for 400.8?
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Part of the ink in 400.8 says, "Unless specifically permitted in 400.7"
So the ink in 400.8 applies only to installations that don't fall under 400.7
Those first 5 words of 400.8 state that 400.7 "trumps" 400.8 if it is specifically listed in manufacturers instructions as being permitted.

Another example is 400.8(6) & (7) which is modified by 400.14. And you can use what's allowed in 400.14 without the manufacturers specifically saying that it's OK. You can follow that section unless the manufacturer has specific wording that excludes installing as described in 400.14.

400.8 is the other way around. You can not use a cord in an installation described in 400.8 unless the manufacturer has specific wording that includes installing as described in 400.7

The 400.8 restrictions are not absolute.

...
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[size=+1]Finally, some fresh air in here. :D [/size]

.
 
Bob, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer from Smart. :D:D:D

Roger
 
iwire said:
What does this mean?



Your not editing peoples post and using them as quotes are you?
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The above quote is as automatically entered when I clicked the QUOTE button of your post. Note how your quoting part of my post does not appear in it. To embed a quoted item as the poster had, I have to manually enter it. In this particular case, the quotes that dnem (David) had put in his response were labeled as "Originally Posted by bikeindy" when in fact they were originally posted by roger and bikeindy copied into his post without quote tags... I did not revise the quoted material itself, only the "originally posted, reposted" part. Sorry if the note was misleading. I would never knowingly misquote someone...
 
Smart $ said:
The above quote is as automatically entered when I clicked the QUOTE button of your post. Note how your quoting part of my post does not appear in it. To embed a quoted item as the poster had, I have to manually enter it. In this particular case, the quotes that dnem (David) had put in his response were labeled as "Originally Posted by bikeindy" when in fact they were originally posted by roger and bikeindy copied into his post without quote tags... I did not revise the quoted material itself, only the "originally posted, reposted" part. Sorry if the note was misleading. I would never knowingly misquote someone...
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Yeah I was a little disturbed to see David Quoting me when it was roger that had said that. Oh well.
 
georgestolz said:
Smart $ said:
I would knowingly misquote someone...
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Me too, for a cheap laugh.
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Thanks for the misquote, George. Since others seem to have gotten their jollies out of quoting me verbatim, I wouldn't want to leave anyone out!!! :D :D :D
 
roger said:
I'm sorry Larry. I know in reality you are not naive so I want do it again. ;)

Boy, your second sentence does show you are not very technically minded though.
laughing-smiley-004.gif
laughing-smiley-004.gif


Whew, I tickled myself there. Got me too.

Trevor and Chris, thanks for your support

Roger
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Gee thanks Roger: I might have been more technically minded if I had managed to get more than 2 hours sleep in any given night for the last 6 days.
 
400.7(8)

400.7(8)

This is one of the exceptions allowing flexible cords or cables above a suspended ceiling. I'm not sure I know what it means. Can anyone give an example or two of what equipment would fall into this category.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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