- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
It would be great if they called the service division. My experience has been customers call their sales rep instead.
resetting a 2000a main
- Thread starter billdozier
- Start date
- Status
charlietuna
Senior Member
Actually i don't think many condos ever have their gear trip setpoints set up properly from their construction days ! Calling the rep will probably get them an estimate thru their local supply house to bring in factory trained people to do a maintainance check of their gear! This figure will be high for sure ! I had large office building accounts that had this done every two years and they ran it thru our company and we assisted them and the trip setpoints did change between inspections.
As a side note....its my belief that some day we will have required "remote" control stations, "out of harms way" for these larger frame "high calorie" closure units. Meaning that the means to close this breaker would not be accesible on the front panel.. It just doesnt make sense to put ones self in harms way, even with proper PPE...either a qualified person or un-qualified.....
my two cents, looking down the road.............
See there, I still read this forum from time to time.....:smile:
my two cents, looking down the road.............
See there, I still read this forum from time to time.....:smile:
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
You can say that again, the factory reps are high to start with, add the supply houses adders and it would be way high. Better to hire a local company that specializes in switchgear testing, NETA is a good place to start, but there are also several good non NETA shops that testing is thier primary business.
charlietuna
Senior Member
We had a college that had a problem with all the insulation melting off their switchgear's "CT's"--- i had seen it twice before too--all on ITE gear? Well they asked us to have ITE come out and test the gear. It was expensive since these guys came from Atlanta and it was set up for the weekend! The first day they replaced all the "CT's" and then they were testing on Sunday. The testing required them to fish a cable that looked like welding cable down around each phase and it was insulated of course. But to weight this cable down they tied a big brass lug on the end???? This was not insulated and at first i thought this was a little dangerous, but they were the experts!!! They needed some batteries for their test gear and i ran to the store to get them. As i stepped back inside the building with the batteries--ALL the lights went out???? I got back to the switchgear room and there sat this guy (originally he was black) pale white with red eyes--blinking his eyes. The second guy was blown back under a stack of ladders! The test cable was still hanging in the switchgear------------------- never found the BIG BRASS LUG !!! Thank goodness nobody was seriously hurt !! That ended their testing !!!:grin:
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
thank god the pros from dover saved the day.....
sounds like a really good time to go to the truck for something......
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Welcome home.
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
Rampage_Rick
Senior Member
- Location
- British Columbia, Canada
Yeah, they almost swallowed the black capsule.
weressl
Esteemed Member
Just to clarify. Current PPE's protect from the heat effects of the arcing fault, they do NOT protect from flying fragments that may result from an arc-fault. PPE's should be available to trained personel to further discourage non-qualified people to operate equipment that the have no business handling. If the person is unqualified how would he know that he has to suit up?
Your 'blast suit' reminded me of something. The whole issue of arc flash PPE seems enabling to me to begin with. We are accepting that an equipment will malfunction due either to insufficient maintenance or bad design or the combination of both. I wonder if the military would accept that with live ordinance handling? The only unit that actually wears the "blast suit" is the bomb disposal crew.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Actually when I calculate arc flash incident energy, I am assuming the protective devices will operate as intended. The PPE is for accidents, lapses in judgment, and other uncontrolled situations that may cause an arc to be developed.
The Coast Guard wears PFD's on small patrol craft not because they expect the craft to sink, but in case they end up in the water anyway.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
You have to, what other option do you have? The new addition to article 200.1 in the 2009 70E gives some support to this assumption and puts the proper maintenence and testing of these devices on the owner.
ironman3452
Member
koodos to you, if he knew what might of happen if there was an arc fault he probibly not of messed with it.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
charlietuna
Senior Member
According to switchgear instructions i have never noticed that it can only be operated by qualified persons?? It is designed to operate without danger to it's operator. Where the problem arises is when operators are not properly instructed in the proceedure to reset a breaker and/or to contact a pre-determined qualified individual with any questions or concerns that might arise. Like trying to close a pringle switch with a blown fuse or ground fault trip! And of course knowing how to operate the basic switch. The manufacturers have pictures along with instructions and they still can't get it right....
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Gaithersburg MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
This is a very poor analogy that has so many holes in it that its not worth debating.
As for my "blast" vs "flash" terminology, I made a mistake. I forgot for a second where I was posting. Either way I still feel its a good Idea. Many times on this forum we split hairs and debate the theory, totally forgetting about the real world. Call me stupid because I was, but I have closed and opened gear that I should have had protection on for, but did not because I worked for a company who did not provide it nor did they provide the training. I at the time was technically "unqualified" at the time even though I had an understanding of what could happen. If the room had a suite I would have used it and would have then been deemed qualified. In any event I would rather provide the suite than nothing at all regardless of the politics. The rooms that contain the gear are really only suppose to be accessed by qualified people. If the argument is that unqualified people wont know to suit up then that's beyond unqualified thats just tragic. But there are many who enter those rooms who know exactly the dangers and still yet fail to suite up. Many people know drinking and driving is deadly yet 1000's continued to do it. Sometimes something as simple as a suite hanging up can save lives.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
From Sq-D masterpact switchgear instructions, page 4
"Electrical equipment should be installed, operated, serviced, and maintained only by qualified personnel. No responsibility is assumed by Schneider Electric for any consequences arising out of the use of this material."
And on page 13
"HAZARD OF ELECTRIC SHOCK, EXPLOSION OR ARC FLASH
? Apply appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE) and follow safe electrical work practices. See NFPA 70E.
? This equipment must be installed and serviced only by qualified electrical personnel.
? Turn off all power supplying this equipment before working on or inside equipment.
? Always use a properly rated voltage sensing device to confirm power is off.
? Replace all devices, doors and covers before turning on power to this equipment.
Failure to follow these instructions will result in death or serious injury."
I could go on and on with the warnings throughout this manual, and could find the same warnings from any OEM.
charlietuna
Senior Member
Are you telling me that you would call the power company before resetting a main breaker to de-energize the gear??
weressl
Esteemed Member
In your opinion.
Alas it isn't so.
My point was and is that live ordinance has the same potential of causing harm and injury as electrical equipment, yet if properly maintained and handled they have inherent design features that provide protection for the individuals without needing to have additional protective equipment.
Is there any evidence of increased injury and fatality ratios due to arc-flash? Is there any evidence that arc flash protection will prevent all injuries and fatalities? (Hell, a large percentage of the installations have such high energy available that there is no PPE available.!) In my opinion it is an over-reach of regulations and the PPE use is required, rather than being optional for qualified individuals who are perfectly capable of evaluating the individual cases when it IS needed.
I also would like to call your attention to the attached file that shows the great discrepancy between calculated and actual tested data. As my son would say: what's up with that?!
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