residential fuse blowing

[480sparky]

So I can check line-line when needed.

Apparently, we're checking two different things. I'm using the bulb to locate a short circuit (to ground) somewhere in the circuit. Line-to-line shorts are much easier to locate.

 

[mivey]

Apparently, we're checking two different things. I'm using the bulb to locate a short circuit (to ground) somewhere in the circuit. Line-to-line shorts are much easier to locate.

I was not clear.

I use the same gear when I'm checking a panel for blown fuses, water heaters, etc. It is easier for a quick diagnosis than a meter and travels light.

The ballast wire works great on some of the old fuse blocks because it will fit right into the little holes on the front and you can make a quick check without even removing the panel cover.

 

[480sparky]

I was not clear.

I use the same gear when I'm checking a panel for blown fuses, water heaters, etc. It is easier for a quick diagnosis than a meter and travels light.

The ballast wire works great on some of the old fuse blocks because it will fit right into the little holes on the front and you can make a quick check without even removing the panel cover.

Ok, we're on opposite sides of the planet. I install a temp sockets with lamps at the panel to locate shorts to ground. I install one between the breaker/fuse and the branch circuit ungrounded, and the other between the fuse/breaker and ground.

If both lamps are the same brightness, there's a short somewhere. When the bulb attached to the circuit's hot dims or goes out, the short is no longer there.

I can't imagine using a lamp just to check voltage...... there's too many meters out there that will do the same thing, and I don't have to worry about breaking them.

 

[mivey]

Ok, we're on opposite sides of the planet. I install a temp sockets with lamps at the panel to locate shorts to ground. I install one between the breaker/fuse and the branch circuit ungrounded, and the other between the fuse/breaker and ground.

If both lamps are the same brightness, there's a short somewhere. When the bulb attached to the circuit's hot dims or goes out, the short is no longer there.

I can't imagine using a lamp just to check voltage...... there's too many meters out there that will do the same thing, and I don't have to worry about breaking them.

Take to the door on a lot of resi/small com trouble calls: toolbelt, screwgun, flashlight, testlight.

 

[480sparky]

Take to the door on a lot of resi/small com trouble calls: toolbelt, screwgun, flashlight, testlight.

I understand that. But I don't like to keep tripping a breaker or spending 25 bucks on fuses trying to locate a short to ground. That's why I use the lamps.

 

[mivey]

I understand that. But I don't like to keep tripping a breaker or spending 25 bucks on fuses trying to locate a short to ground. That's why I use the lamps.

I'm still not being clear. I use it for finding shorts and as a test probe. You can just screw the bulb in the fuse socket (the standard socket, anyway).

I just use the 230v bulbs because I already have them set up as a test light for probing. It was the norm for us in the early 80's and I'm just used to it.

 

[LarryFine]

I use two bulbs, one installed in the 'trouble' circuit, and the other between the breaker or fuse and ground. If the two are the same brightness, there's still a short. If the 'problem' circuit bulb dims or goes out, then the problem is solved.

Doesn't the second bulb just burn at full brilliance, and merely act as a power indicator?

 

[LarryFine]

The ballast wire works great on some of the old fuse blocks because it will fit right into the little holes on the front and you can make a quick check without even removing the panel cover.

So, you're talking about the fuse-clip access holes on the pull-outs. My K-60's probes fit those holes.

 

[LarryFine]

I install a temp sockets with lamps at the panel to locate shorts to ground.

In other words, in series with the circuit, as a combination current-limiter and indicator. Black wire to fuse/breaker, white to circuit.

I install one between the breaker/fuse and the branch circuit ungrounded, and the other between the fuse/breaker and ground.

I guess having a brightness-comparison helps for circuits with loads still plugged in/turned on, but I've never needed one.

When we find a short and make the contact intermittent or clear it, there's no mistaking the variations in bulb brightness.

 

[480sparky]

Doesn't the second bulb just burn at full brilliance, and merely act as a power indicator?

Yes.

In other words, in series with the circuit, as a combination current-limiter and indicator. Black wire to fuse/breaker, white to circuit.

I guess having a brightness-comparison helps for circuits with loads still plugged in/turned on, but I've never needed one.

When we find a short and make the contact intermittent or clear it, there's no mistaking the variations in bulb brightness.

Yes, because I work alone. I can't work at the other end of the house and watch the lamps at the same time. Having the second bulb makes it easy to reference any brightness change.

 

[mivey]

So, you're talking about the fuse-clip access holes on the pull-outs. My K-60's probes fit those holes.

Some are big holes, some are real small. I can carry the test light around by the leads, and don't have to find a place for a meter, and it is super light (weight, not lumens).

My newer meter has a magnet clip so is a lot more convenient than what I grew up on.

PS: the ballast wire sneaks in behind a screw-in fuse quite nicely too.

 

[boboelectric]

Get Rid Of The Fuses.

 

[mxslick]

Get Rid Of The Fuses.

Why? If there's no sign of overfusing, tampering or failure of the fuseholders, leave it alone.

 

[quogueelectric]

Just pull out the old amprobe 2005 and trace the citcuit for whatever the problem du jour is short open ground fault ect.........ect.......... so simple and fast. about a thousand bucks though only drawback.

 

[ichimo23]

Apparently, we're checking two different things. I'm using the bulb to locate a short circuit (to ground) somewhere in the circuit. Line-to-line shorts are much easier to locate.
__________________

I'm trying to figure out exactly how you utilize this troubleshooting method.
1) If you have a short circuit (to ground) wouldnt the breaker trip whenever moved to the 'on' position? I understand how you would use a lamp connected from the breaker to ground as a brightness reference. Why would a lamp (temporarily) wired in series with the branch circuit off the same breaker dim when the short is removed (assuming there is no other load on the circuit)?

While on the subject of troubleshooting, is anyone aware of a good reference book or website for troubleshooting tips? I'm an apprentice who has done primarily new construction, but the company plans to get back into service work, and i would like to be ahead of the game with ideas on how to attack common problems.

 

[480sparky]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how you utilize this troubleshooting method.
1) If you have a short circuit (to ground) wouldnt the breaker trip whenever moved to the 'on' position? I understand how you would use a lamp connected from the breaker to ground as a brightness reference. Why would a lamp (temporarily) wired in series with the branch circuit off the same breaker dim when the short is removed (assuming there is no other load on the circuit)?........

The breaker won't trip (or fuse blow) because it's not a short when there is a bulb in series with the circuit.

The reason it may dim when the short is removed is because it is then in series with any load that may be turned on. If there are no loads on, the bulb simply goes out.

See this thread.

 

[ichimo23]

[The breaker won't trip (or fuse blow) because it's not a short when there is a bulb in series with the circuit.

The reason it may dim when the short is removed is because it is then in series with any load that may be turned on. If there are no loads on, the bulb simply goes out.

Thanks for the explaination. I should have been able to figure that out by myself.

 

[480sparky]

Thanks for the explaination. I should have been able to figure that out by myself.

That's what we're here for.



BTW, try the Quote Button (

). It makes your replies easier to understand.

 

[ItsHot]

update

update

Just an update, I forgot about this thread. Got to the house and checked fuse panel. Checked voltage from service..good. Checked termination of conductors at problem branch circuit..good.(only one wire landed at fuse terminal !!) Went to outlet receptacles of branch circuit. Checked voltage at each receptacle.. good. Looked for problem appliances on circuit in bedroom..only an alarm clock??? Master bedroom is an addition to house. Decided to eyeball wiring in attic. Traced romex down..looked ok?? Followed homerun down back to panel..looked good! Noticed a junction box in home run?? Feed a small attic exhaust fan, motor was locked down!! When homeowner said she was blowing a fuse when nothing was on circuit, she did not realize the fan was on this circuit. Thermostat would call for fan to run and fuse would blow. Thanks for all of your comments!!:smile:

 

[JohnJ0906]

Just an update, I forgot about this thread. Got to the house and checked fuse panel. Checked voltage from service..good. Checked termination of conductors at problem branch circuit..good.(only one wire landed at fuse terminal !!) Went to outlet receptacles of branch circuit. Checked voltage at each receptacle.. good. Looked for problem appliances on circuit in bedroom..only an alarm clock??? Master bedroom is an addition to house. Decided to eyeball wiring in attic. Traced romex down..looked ok?? Followed homerun down back to panel..looked good! Noticed a junction box in home run?? Feed a small attic exhaust fan, motor was locked down!! When homeowner said she was blowing a fuse when nothing was on circuit, she did not realize the fan was on this circuit. Thermostat would call for fan to run and fuse would blow. Thanks for all of your comments!!:smile:

Good job!

Always feels good to track something like that down.