Residential Ground Conductor Experiment

[Fred B]

Given the small number of new dwelling units constructed vs the total number of dwelling units, and the fact that 85% of the dwelling unit fires that are said to be of electrical origin occur in dwelling units that are over 20 years old, it will be many decades before there is any statistically valid information on the effectiveness of AFCIs reducing dwelling unit electrical fires.

Don't know about the reduction of fires, and I know there are those here that unabashedly are haters, I do know that the AFCI will show quickly an issue that does lead to heating and fires, loose connections. I've had many many calls where a GC has done electrical installation and complaining about the AFCI tripping "for no reason". When I investigate, 99.8% I find loose terminations on receptacle or even breakers, the other .2% I've found a bad fixture and 1 time a finish nail pierce the wire. Made the repair and they stopped tripping. So I dont know.

 

[mopowr steve]

Don't know about the reduction of fires, and I know there are those here that unabashedly are haters, I do know that the AFCI will show quickly an issue that does lead to heating and fires, loose connections. I've had many many calls where a GC has done electrical installation and complaining about the AFCI tripping "for no reason". When I investigate, 99.8% I find loose terminations on receptacle or even breakers, the other .2% I've found a bad fixture and 1 time a finish nail pierce the wire. Made the repair and they stopped tripping. So I dont know.

OH GREAT ONE.
please share with us your troubleshooting techniques

 

[hbiss]

This also leads me to another question. Is there a rated lifespan for an Arc Fault circuit breaker? Will they even be effective after reaching the 20 year mark? Is there any mean time to failure schedule to look at published for the major brands?

Add to that my favorite annoyance- outdoor panels. How long will they last when installed in panels located on the outside of houses?

-Hal

 

[ptonsparky]

Add to that my favorite annoyance- outdoor panels. How long will they last when installed in panels located on the outside of houses?

-Hal

Houses might be different, but grain bins, 40 years wouldn’t be all that hard to find.

 

[kwired]

Houses might be different, but grain bins, 40 years wouldn’t be all that hard to find.

but none them have AFCI's in them. Only been about 20 years since you seen hardly any with a GFCI whether it be breaker or receptacle. Some those only last 3 to 5 years at most, some of that is because of poor attention on to how to manage condensation inside raceways and enclosures though.

 

[WasGSOHM]

Holy Cow!
The Bible says, "Ask, and ye shall receive."
Well, I asked and I received. . .

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don't know about the reduction of fires, and I know there are those here that unabashedly are haters, I do know that the AFCI will show quickly an issue that does lead to heating and fires, loose connections. I've had many many calls where a GC has done electrical installation and complaining about the AFCI tripping "for no reason". When I investigate, 99.8% I find loose terminations on receptacle or even breakers, the other .2% I've found a bad fixture and 1 time a finish nail pierce the wire. Made the repair and they stopped tripping. So I dont know.

Not saying that they don't work, (however I have serious doubts) just saying that any reduction in dwelling unit fires as a result of the AFCI rules will be stastically impossible to show for a few more decades. The installed base of dwelling units with AFCIs as compared to those without out will be much too small, and added to that is the fact that the number of fires said to be of electrical origin in the houses built in the last 20 years is much less than in older homes.

As far as loose connections without arcing, there is no device on the market that will directly detect that issue.

 

[kwired]

Not saying that they don't work, (however I have serious doubts) just saying that any reduction in dwelling unit fires as a result of the AFCI rules will be stastically impossible to show for a few more decades. The installed base of dwelling units with AFCIs as compared to those without out will be much too small, and added to that is the fact that the number of fires said to be of electrical origin in the houses built in the last 20 years is much less than in older homes.

As far as loose connections without arcing, there is no device on the market that will directly detect that issue.

There is also demonstrations out there with arcing that don't trip them, nobody really knows the secrets to what it takes to trip them, this information seems to have higher security than some of the department of defense intelligence operations do.