Restaurant POS...

[rjfrankn]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Oh yeah, sure. Just throw money at it.
Too many unknowns. You said the system keeps crashing -the POS unit or system server? When; after or during a busy lunch, firing up the cappuccino maker, blender, turning on a neon sign, or right off the bat? Seemingly this is a PC and after-all, prone to 20 different things. Heck, a trucker driving by with his big amp talking on the CB has caused such things on data lines.

 

[physis]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I was trying not to get involved with this until I couldn't stand the curiousity anymore.



Did anyone see a shipping cost? They say it weighs a half pound.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Is no one going to call me on the mat for the "trimmed a house with $150 receptacles" comment?

C'mon, Sam!

 

[physis]

Re: Restaurant POS...

You mean you were'nt serious? I use 'em all the time. They make a GFI too!

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

The link below is a copy of the letter sent to my customer explaining his problem with the POS and possible solutions.


Letter From Computer Tech.

The computer company has come back with a solution calling for the installation of the following:

1 PowerVar # ABCG 065 11 78V Ground Guard
3 PowerVar # ABCG 202 11 240V Ground Guard
at a total of $1,715.00

I welcome any comments about this situation and options available to help correct this continuing problem.

Norb

 

[petersonra]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I am not surpised that they can fix the problem for $1800.

I am amazed that they think moving the cordless phone base off the same outlet will have any effect at all.

You might want to try an RFI filter on the POS terminal and see if it makes any difference. I think you can get one for under $50.

I am instantly suspicious of anyone that suggests and isolated ground will solve anything. I would ask the tech just what he means by an isolated ground. If he starts taking about putting in another ground rod somewhere, you can bet the rest of his advice is so much bunk as well.

 

[physis]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Has anybody suggested getting a POS terminal that works?

 

[jerryb]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I've seen this before in a restaurant POS system. In our case the problem was caused by having the POS receptacle power in the same raceway and other branch circuits. When the bar used the blender it creased electronic noise on the electrical system which uses the common neutral. The Electronic Noise gets into the cash registers, looses all memory and re-boots the system. The ultimate answer is to have a dedicated circuit just for POS and make sure that it does not enter the same raceway. Any good POS system vendor would have asked for this as a mimimum for their system.

 

[physis]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I wouldn't be surprised if there are many, many, many POS terminals that will work right next to 5 blenders.

I used to be involved with a product that had an inadequate power supply and the manufacturer was always insisting that the buildings these things were used in be rewired in order to fix the problem.

You know what. It rarely fixed the problem.

It also didn't have all that bad of a supply. The product just couldn't operate in an unsterile environment.

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I just finished testing a few things at the restaurant/bar. This is a 3 phase system. I get:

209 respectfully across any two legs
~120 to 122 Line to Ground
.2 Neutral to Ground

At the terminal stations I get:
119.5 L-N & .2 N-G Bar Area ( furthest point )
119.4 L-N & .2 - .3 N-G Service Area
120 L-N & .1 - .2 N-G Kitchen ( printer only )
121.5 L-N & .1 N-G Office

This does not seem to be that out of line to me, but then again I?m posting here for help. I don?t know how the computer tech. got his readings, see previous post with link to "Letter". I was there during regular business hours. I did find out that the other restaurants/bar of the same franchise in the area are now starting to have the same type issues, Credit Card machine problems and the like. I was told that the system is networked using ?Chow?(?), I have no idea.

Any thing anyone would like to share with me to pass along to my customer will be greatly appreciated. I know he is ready to get this issue resolved and he is looking to me for the answers.

Thanks in advanced

Norb

 

[dereckbc]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Norb, I see something that does not make since, it is you N-G voltage readings. At the service panel I would expect to see 0 due to the N-G bond, so I assume you are measuring downstream some where. So, it is .2 OK

Once you get down stream assuming there is load current the N-G voltage should rise to approx half the total L-N drop, not stay the same or less. Could you have what some call boot-leg grounds? Where you have additional N-G bonds downstream from the service entrance? That would explain a lot of problems.

 

[jjhoward]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Hi Norb,
What's with the lava lamp?
Chow networking...
All I can say is YIKES!
Sorry Norb, not much help here.
Joe

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Dereck:

This restaurant is in a strip store location. I did not look outside for the main disconnect or meter location. The neutral is "floating" in the panel while the Equipment Ground is connected directly to the panel. This was the point of my first readings. The others were then taken at each station.

Norb

 

[caj1962]

Re: Restaurant POS...

This now my answer for these types of problems.
"I suggest we tell them if there equipment is so intolerant to normal electrical anomalies they have to furnish a time dated and stamped wave form captures indicating sine wave anomalies outside of the CEBMA curve for their equipment."

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

I had a chance to run by the restaurant this morning and actually take a few photos of the panel.

Panel Photo

I am of the understanding that with a Main Lug the neutral should be isolated from the panel. I also did not see any EGC entering this panel. The only lines coming in from the service are the three hots and the neutral. I did check to see if the EG & the neutral were indeed separate. I did get continuity between the EG bar and the neutral bar with a N - G of .1 to .2.

Norb

[ March 10, 2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: 1793 ]

 

[dereckbc]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Norb, how far away are you from the service? .1-to-.2 volts indicates very close or no load. .1 or point .2 is even more questionable at the recepts under load unless they are very close or no load on them. I can only assume the raceway is being used as the EGC from the service to the panel in the resaurant.

I do not think a IGR is going to buy you anything. To be effective the IG would need to originate at the service where the N-G bond is. However the code does not require the IG to originate at the service N-G bond.

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Dereck:
I'm I correct in thinking that the EG and the neutral should be separate from each other in the panel? As is now does this not create a parallel return path?

Norb

 

[steve66]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Norb:

If it is a main lug panel, and no equipment ground, then there should be a neutral-ground bond at the service disconnect, and the conduit from the disconnect to the panel should be serving as the ground conductor. Check the conduit and make sure it is mechanically and electrically connected at each end and along its length.

If you don't have a good ground along this conduit, the POS system is the least of your worries.

Steve

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

If indeed there is a neutral-ground bond at the service disconnect, then should the neutral be separate, "floating", from the equipment ground in the panel?

Norb

 

[1793]

Re: Restaurant POS...

Dereck:

The service is about 20 to 30 feet away from the panel. With regard to the loads, I think the only loads on the receptacles at the POS is the POS equipment. There is very little load associated with this equipment.

Norb