Ridiculous law WA L&I

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MDJ said:
Are you an Electrical inspector? Is this something you write up citations for?
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OMG, I have been accused of being a lot of things, first time have ever been equated to a WA L&I occupation.... :lol:

Am mostly just aerospace engineer, power systems for satellites and airplanes, non-NEC except some ground system interties.
 
MDJ said:
Are you an Electrical inspector? Is this something you write up citations for?
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I am an inspector for WSDOT--and no not really--as long as they have it on their person if I ask for it
 
Cow said:
... But the inspector did inform us they have a safety and compliance officer that does nothing but drive around to different jobs to verify you are in compliance at all times. I haven't heard if we've gotten a visit from him yet....

They definitely take it more seriously than most in WA.
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I used to live in Seattle where I had a panel shop and contracting business, I still have friends in the industry there and asked one of them about this. He told me basically the same thing, that this is a safety and compliance issue stemming from mostly NFPA 70E requirements for people being “qualified electrical workers” when working on gear. Electrical inspectors are not charged with enforcement of NFPA 70E and they don’t want to make it that way, but there have been numerous incidents in which unqualified workers were doing unsafe work in panels and switchgear and causing accidents. So the requirement gives electrical AHJs a simple way to put a stop to it if they see it during an inspection by allowing them to challenge anyone who is not wearing their license.
 
Jraef said:
...compliance issue stemming from mostly NFPA 70E requirements for people being “qualified electrical workers” when working on gear...
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However being qualified, under NFPA70E, has absolutely nothing to do with being a licensed electrical contractor.
Field service technicians are typically qualified under NFPA70E, but rarely have contractor licenses.
Licensed electrical contractors may not be qualified workers, under NFPA70E based on the task being performed, unless they have documentation from their company.
 
jim dungar said:
However being qualified, under NFPA70E, has absolutely nothing to do with being a licensed electrical contractor.
Field service technicians are typically qualified under NFPA70E, but rarely have contractor licenses.
Licensed electrical contractors may not be qualified workers, under NFPA70E based on the task being performed, unless they have documentation from their company.
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Hmmm... good point.
 
Jraef said:
I used to live in Seattle where I had a panel shop and contracting business, I still have friends in the industry there and asked one of them about this. He told me basically the same thing, that this is a safety and compliance issue stemming from mostly NFPA 70E requirements for people being “qualified electrical workers” when working on gear. Electrical inspectors are not charged with enforcement of NFPA 70E and they don’t want to make it that way, but there have been numerous incidents in which unqualified workers were doing unsafe work in panels and switchgear and causing accidents. So the requirement gives electrical AHJs a simple way to put a stop to it if they see it during an inspection by allowing them to challenge anyone who is not wearing their license.
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My understanding was that it was to help stop unlicensed work by allowing the Inspector to see if you were licensed without having to ask for your card Which never really made sense to me as we can ask for a card anytime
 
I am also required to have 3" tall numbers on my truck, but they didn't say they have to be proportional so I thought these would work:
 

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Coppersmith said:
I am also required to have 3" tall numbers on my truck, but they didn't say they have to be proportional so I thought these would work:
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:thumbsup:

Years ago my brother was bidding on a Federal / US Army contract and in the process, they required that as the owner of the company he fill out his ethnic identity. There was no set-aside, but they probably needed to check a box somewhere. But the form was fill-in, not multiple choice so he put down 'Luthianish' because our father is Lithuanian and Scottish and our Mother is Italian. We got the contract (because we were the only bidders; specialized washing machines for animal cages used to test bio-weapons), but heard later that this entry had confounded them for quite a while. Eventually someone just changed it to 'Caucasian'.
 
About a month ago the inspector showed up on our job unannounced “to see how we were doing” and I had my liscence in a clear holder on my left forearm. I had it intentionally flipped backside out because of what i previously stated about having my personal information out in the open. He did not like that at all! He said I was breaking the WAC/RCW code. I challenged him (he didn’t like that either stating the rule only says it’s to be visible and worn above the waists which it was. It says nothing about it being front side facing out. I’m sure the rule will be clarified at next code cycle. I also found out Washington L&I electrical inspectors do not like it when you get your camera out and video them while they interrogate you and your crew.
 
[FONT=&quot][h=3]WAC 296-46B-940[/h]
(3) To work in the electrical construction trade, an individual must possess, wear, and visibly display on the front of the upper body, a current valid:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](a) Master journey level electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](b) Journey level electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](c) Master specialty electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](d) Specialty electrician certificate of competency issued by the department; or[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](e) Electrical training certificate, learning the trade in the proper ratio, per RCW 19.28.161, under the supervision of a certified master journey level electrician, journey level electrician, master specialty electrician working in their specialty, or specialty electrician working in their specialty.[/FONT]
 
hbiss said:
Here too. White truck, nobody said you can't have white lettering. You have to walk right up to it to see it but it's there just like required. :D

-Hal
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I know a guy who tried this with his DOT identification sticker. The DOT inspector was extremely unimpressed.
 
I’m in central Washington. I’ve asked my local L&I electrical inspectors about having to wear my license. They’ve told me that as long as I can produce it if requested, they’re happy. Of course that doesn’t mean that I might get an eager beaver inspector that would write me up.

there is a proposed bill in the state legislature to require plumbers to also wear the licenses.

in the majority of Washington, the State L&I does electrical inspections. Local AHJ’s have the option to do electrical inspections in their jurisdictions. Probably a dozen cities do electrical inspections. Plumbing inspections are not done by the state Dept of Labor & Industries. Plumbing permits, inspections, corrections are done by count or city AHJ’s. Plumbers licensing is handled by L&I, same as electricians, but they don’t talk to each other. Imagine that. I have both electrical and plumbing licenses. Separate renewals, separate fees, separate continuing education requirements.
 
Simply wearing a license or card in a visible manner does not mean that you are qualified for every type of work. Been a master for almost 30 years and there are still things that I have little or no experience with. This requirement does nothing to assure that qualified persons are doing the work.
 
jimport said:
Simply wearing a license or card in a visible manner does not mean that you are qualified for every type of work. Been a master for almost 30 years and there are still things that I have little or no experience with. This requirement does nothing to assure that qualified persons are doing the work.
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+1
- methinks mostly to tell at a glance that the state has collected $72.70 ?
 
MDJ said:
Thanks in advance for your opinions.
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when california passed this, it was at the behest of
"collective bargaining units".

they wanted you to be able to see at a glance if someone
was doing journeyman electrical work without a state license.
the primary, and in truth only reason for this was to attempt
to reclaim work that they had freely given away over the
previous three decades, in an arrogant spate of entitlement.

so now, you can't employ anyone as an electrician, in this state,
if they aren't certified. penalties, etc. yada, yada, yada.

all i do for a living is go around and certify work as compliant.
i have seen about three cards displayed, usually on hard hats,
in four years.

and there are an awful lot of guys playin 'lectrician that have no
*clue* how electricity works, or how much of anything works.

urg.jpg
 
LarryFine said:
I tell people that a lot. It doesn't matter how talented the business owner is; it matters how talented the person doing your job is.
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In step w/that, it doesn't matter what credentials one may posess if the punishment for not having them justifies the crime.

~RJ~
 
MDJ said:
About a month ago the inspector showed up on our job unannounced “to see how we were doing” and I had my liscence in a clear holder on my left forearm. I had it intentionally flipped backside out because of what i previously stated about having my personal information out in the open. He did not like that at all! He said I was breaking the WAC/RCW code. I challenged him (he didn’t like that either stating the rule only says it’s to be visible and worn above the waists which it was. It says nothing about it being front side facing out. I’m sure the rule will be clarified at next code cycle. I also found out Washington L&I electrical inspectors do not like it when you get your camera out and video them while they interrogate you and your crew.
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Does the inspector "wear" any kind of credentials?

Even if one is wearing such credentials, how do they know on the spot it isn't false credentials? This isn't a high security risk kind of thing when it comes to proving general licensing, and is nothing more than AHJ overstepping with authority and creating ways to produce opportunities to fine those that are not in compliance with something that is ridiculous to begin with.

For some workplaces the security issue is who and what comes into the place, and their own process of identification is much more important to them than whether someone is carrying their state issued electrical license, that information can be checked out before issuing their own ID badges. And for that matter the EI isn't getting into many places without first clearing their admissions procedures. The facility has the right to protect it's premises, products, employees as well as other authorized guests, which the EI has to become an authorized guest before allowed to enter.



MDJ said:
WAC 296-46B-940


(3) To work in the electrical construction trade, an individual must possess, wear, and visibly display on the front of the upper body, a current valid:
(a) Master journey level electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;
(b) Journey level electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;
(c) Master specialty electrician certificate of competency issued by the department;
(d) Specialty electrician certificate of competency issued by the department; or
(e) Electrical training certificate, learning the trade in the proper ratio, per RCW 19.28.161, under the supervision of a certified master journey level electrician, journey level electrician, master specialty electrician working in their specialty, or specialty electrician working in their specialty.
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Can one tattoo whatever certification is required on their chest, and when asked just lift their shirt and say "here you go".:cool:
 
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