Romex in Basement

[no1uknow]

My question is regarding whether or not the romex in the basement of a residence is in compliance with code. At this residence, Romex (10/2, 12/2 & 14/2) can be found stapled to the floor joists in virtually every direction (parallel, perpendicular, and across at angles). Some of the parallel runs are along the bottom edge, some are along the vertical side of a joist. The floor joists are approximately 9' or so above the floor. The floor joists support all fresh water, septic, and LPG piping, as well as AC duct work.

A home inspector did not note any anomalies with the electrical system (except one missing face plate) or otherwise gross or negligent violations. Dwelling was built in 2003. It has a full size basement which is somewhat unusual in central NC; the property is sloped in such a way that the ceiling at the front of the basement is just above ground level, while the floor of the basement at the rear of the home is at ground level. It shares space with a two car garage, water / AC closet, stairway, and a small finished laundry room where the main panel and SE is located. It has a solid concrete slab floor and cinder block walls along the front and sides, while the rear wall consists of more common materials (wood, siding). The exterior face of the cinder block, the portions below the soil level, are sealed and insulated on the exterior side. There is no water or moisture issues, and it is never damp.

Since I am new to this forum, I will tell you that most of my experience and knowledge comes from industrial situations where rigid or EMT is virtually always used. Most of it is for production machines and equipment. Occasionally I will run power to switches, receptacles, emergency lights, etc. but again this is always done with conduit and in the industrial setting. I've done many electrical installations for panels, transformers, conduit, etc. over the years and I know code is different for residential, which is why I'm asking here to clear a few things up :blink:.

Thanks is advance.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think you'll find that what you described is non-compliant. Where are you in NC. That would never pass in our areas

334.15(C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where
cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements
and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables
not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors
directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables
shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running
boards. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable installed on the
wall of an unfinished basement shall be permitted to be
installed in a listed conduit or tubing or shall be protected
in accordance with 300.4. Conduit or tubing shall be provided
with a suitable insulating bushing or adapter at the
point the cable enters the raceway. The sheath of the
nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall extend through the conduit
or tubing and into the outlet or device box not less than
6 mm (1⁄4 in.). The cable shall be secured within 300 mm
(12 in.) of the point where the cable enters the conduit or
tubing. Metal conduit, tubing, and metal outlet boxes shall
be connected to an equipment grounding conductor complying
with the provisions of 250.86 and 250.148.

 

[no1uknow]

I think you'll find that what you described is non-compliant. Where are you in NC. That would never pass in our areas

The residence is in Alamance County, Mebane but not within city limits.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am surprised this past in Alamance County

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Also, this is not the worst thing in the world however, it is a violation.

 

[jim dungar]

...., it is a violation.

But, was it 'not acceptable' when the home was built, back in 2003?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

But, was it 'not acceptable' when the home was built, back in 2003?

I can't remember how far back but as long as I remember it wasn't code. I may be mistaken

 

[gadfly56]

I can't remember how far back but as long as I remember it wasn't code. I may be mistaken

If they get moved onto running boards they should be OK. How big a chore would that be?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If they get moved onto running boards they should be OK. How big a chore would that be?

From what the op stated it would be a mess. I would leave it and be aware of it. Certain size wires are allowed to go diagonally across the joists so it may be compliant

 

[no1uknow]

From what the op stated it would be a mess.

Somewhat, yes. What constitutes as "a lot" of cables to one person may not be equal to "a lot" in another persons mind.

I think I am going to re-run the existing cables correctly, however many there are. There are 2 critical ones which I will have to do first (AC condenser & well) but the rest are lights and receptacles at various locations along the floor joists so it won't be too terrible of a task. I am looking to expand electrical in the basement area for a work shop and running power to several a receptacles on the walls (EMT down the walls, all GFCI of course) is necessary for shop equipment. There are no wall-mounted receptacles at the moment which is a huge pain with extension cords all over the place and hanging down from the ceiling. Since I'll be running new romex, I might as well re-work the existing violations to bring them into compliance. I'm sure someone would find this much work as unnecessary, but I don't mind taking the time to make it right. Not to mention I posses the sort of luck that some future inspector would nail me on the existing violations

 

[qcroanoke]

Somewhat, yes. What constitutes as "a lot" of cables to one person may not be equal to "a lot" in another persons mind.

I think I am going to re-run the existing cables correctly, however many there are. There are 2 critical ones which I will have to do first (AC condenser & well) but the rest are lights and receptacles at various locations along the floor joists so it won't be too terrible of a task. I am looking to expand electrical in the basement area for a work shop and running power to several a receptacles on the walls (EMT down the walls, all GFCI of course) is necessary for shop equipment. There are no wall-mounted receptacles at the moment which is a huge pain with extension cords all over the place and hanging down from the ceiling. Since I'll be running new romex, I might as well re-work the existing violations to bring them into compliance. I'm sure someone would find this much work as unnecessary, but I don't mind taking the time to make it right. Not to mention I posses the sort of luck that some future inspector would nail me on the existing violations

So this is your home?
I don't blame you at all, I would not want to look at that every time I went in the basement.

 

[JFletcher]

In VA, what you describe would be allowable in crawl spaces but not a basement.

 

[Fnewman]

Not many basements around here, but very commonly found in crawl spaces. Most of the time I am luckily if I don't see at least some on the ground.

 

[George Stolz]

With the OPs piping background, neatly installed romex would look like an unmade bed. Eye of the beholder and all, pictures would go a long way.

 

[peter d]

In VA, what you describe would be allowable in crawl spaces but not a basement.

The majority of the time we either have slabs or basements here, very few crawlspaces, and I'm happy for that!

 

[kwired]

Put in a suspended ceiling and it is no longer a violation.

 

[JFletcher]

Put in a suspended ceiling and it is no longer a violation.

Heh, that's a novel approach. Probably cheaper/easier to rewire it, especially if there is other/a lot of mechanical in the way of the grid.

There are very few slabs or basements here. Crawlspaces wouldnt be so bad if with older homes the builder didnt use it as a garbage dump. Sharp huge rocks, broken cinderblocks, pieces of rusty bell iron, etc. make navigating them quite slow. Plumbing leaks, oil leaks, sinkholes and critters complete the little house crawlspace of horrors.

 

[gadfly56]

Heh, that's a novel approach. Probably cheaper/easier to rewire it, especially if there is other/a lot of mechanical in the way of the grid.

There are very few slabs or basements here. Crawlspaces wouldnt be so bad if with older homes the builder didnt use it as a garbage dump. Sharp huge rocks, broken cinderblocks, pieces of rusty bell iron, etc. make navigating them quite slow. Plumbing leaks, oil leaks, sinkholes and critters complete the little house crawlspace of horrors.

My first reaction was "You can't do that!" and then the more I thought about it, the more sense it made. The OP said the joists are 9'± AFF. Yeah it could be expensive, but if he wants a drop ceiling there anyway it's two birds with one stone.

 

[kwired]

My first reaction was "You can't do that!" and then the more I thought about it, the more sense it made. The OP said the joists are 9'± AFF. Yeah it could be expensive, but if he wants a drop ceiling there anyway it's two birds with one stone.

9 foot basement ceilings have been common here for about 20 years or so on new construction, it allows you to put in a suspended ceiling and not have to box around ductwork /plumbing and still have approximately an 8 foot finished ceiling.

If the basement is not a space that is intended to be habitable space then it is just a waste to install 9 foot basement walls.

I agree putting in the ceiling can be more expensive then "fixing" the wiring issue though. Fixing that wiring issue doesn't really improve anything either though. It doesn't increase the value of the home one bit, a finished off ceiling does.

 

[no1uknow]

So this is your home?
I don't blame you at all, I would not want to look at that every time I went in the basement.

Yes, this is my home. I plan to set up some CNC machines and a small wood-working shop in the basement area. I have already installed a sub-panel to accommodate the expansion as the main panel is full.

I'm not quite sure if I want to put up ceiling tile. I kind of like the rough look of a basement. Perhaps in the future I may paint everything on the ceiling black and remove the insulation, finish the walls, etc. but for now I'm leaving it as is. There are tons of other things that need to be done to the house before I tackle more accessory/luxury things like a basement ceiling.

Here's a few images of the existing wiring. Ignore the extension cords; I posted earlier that electrical outlets are hard to find down here which is why I'm expanding service.