Science of Arc Flash & Engineering

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After going through all these tangents-- the title is not appropriate to be called science anymore . . . let alone considered to be

(above text cut because I was warnt: "The text that you have entered is too long (22989 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.")


About the science and engineering part. I was discussing with someone at an arc flash forum resource site who replied me in long detailed responses. I learnt a lot about "how it started, how it can be prevented and what the contributing factor that led to it, would be worth the time spent.". This is the reason I don't ask about them here because people are not focusing on the science part and i'm getting answers in the other site. Anyway, here's the reply of that person that address most of your questions or the science and engineering part of it which I'm really more interested in:

HOW IT STARTED:

(Everything that follows are quotes of the arc flash expert taken in my conversations I found relevant. You can go directly at the following site to read all the gory details. https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4873


"There are two different issues here. Contamination is sort of quantified in a very non-qualitative way in IEEE 516 where the evidence for this is documented. It's not very strong. Repeated incidents of tracking will eventually result in a fault but there's no definition of what is too bad. Eventually you get effects like dry banding, corona discharges, etc., which eventually result in a power arc. In NFPA 499 for instance referring to dust explosion problems such as coal they give a figure of 1/32 inch thickness and claim that this is when you can no longer see a white painted background clearly as a good indicator of when it is too thick.


As to vaporizing and such, what? That's not really what we're talking about here. It's conductive or semi-conductive materials that form surface partial discharges...basically bridging regions of high dielectric with low (or basically zero) ones causing increased voltage stress on the high dielectric regions resulting in insulation breakdown which causes the growth of what are called electrical trees which grow over time until a flashover occurs. Carbon vapor is not a necessity for this to occur...simple presence is all it takes. Google "partial discharge", "dry banding", "critical flashover voltage", "voltage stress", etc.

The concern with dropped tools is that it's a conductor. Simple as that."

"you do NOT need any kind of previous damage of any kind in an actual arc flash. What typically happens is that we get an arc from line to ground which is what you had. Then this heats up the surrounding air. As air temperature goes up as with most substances (except carbon) the insulation properties go down. Thus within typically 1-2 cycles of an arc flash the surrounding air heats up to the point that it jumps from one terminal to the next and we get a full on 3 phase (or single phase in your case) arc flash regardless of how it started. Barriers, insulation blocks, etc., often have little to no effect as far as isolation goes. From a forensic point of view one of the tell tale signs is looking specifically for damage from a ground fault since once the arc flash gets going it usually has very little interaction with grounded surfaces after that except if you get A-enclosure-C arcing.


Carbon is not "deposited". If insulation is damaged the chemical results are water, CO2, etc., when hydrocarbons completely burned but you get soot and ash with incomplete burning and noncombustible materials such as fillers. The remaining material (the "carbon" as you called it) is a semiconductor. It has no electrical insulating properties whatsoever. Carbon "depositing" is something quite different. That's contamination. Just ask "smoke stack" industries (iron & steel, refineries, coal prep plants, mining, many chemical plants, wood plants, etc.) if it's a problem. The answer is a resounding yes. Routine cleaning of electrical gear is an absolute necessity for them in many cases. After damage NEMA standards among others are pretty clear: you remove and replace ALL damaged insulation, period. The previous repair was clearly improperly done based on the description.


To clear things up at low level voltages and currents we get streaming which is essentially nonvisible currents flowing across surfaces. As the surface becomes more contaminated or damaged, "glows", "sparks", St. Elmo's fire (corona discharges), etc. appear. Depending on the intensity these things can be mostly harmless. As the intensity increases we get progressively more energetic effects, and damage begins to ensue. It appears initially as a whitish powder residue and surfaces that are intended to be polished like insulators start to take on a dull appearance. Eventually the insulation turns black where it has burned completely leaving only a semiconductive ash and soot material behind. Whether white or black, the dielectric is compromised. Across the semi-conductive region whether it is due to contamination or insulation resistance, effectively the dielectric is ZERO and thus the voltage drop across this region is zero. The problem though is that we're dealing not with a 1 dimensional case like a wire but a 2D or maybe 3D problem. This sets up a situation where we have a much higher voltage flux (gradient) across the surrounding regions that are still intact and in parallel with the compromised region. Eventually this additional stress causes breakdown of the regions next to the compromised spot if the applied voltage across the insulation is high enough. This region is then damaged (oxidized/burns) which increases the size of the damaged area and puts yet more voltage stress on the remaining undamaged insulation. Physically the pattern is a Lichtenberg figure (frozen lightning) which is something that technicians look for with medium voltage which is a tell tale indication of an impending failure. The same thing still happens even at low voltages but the scales are drastically smaller.


Now going beyond this, there is no measurement of contamination or any sort of test to indication what is acceptable and what's not. At medium voltage (>1 kV) there is the "tin foil" test which is a performance test to verify whether or not the equipment clearances are sufficient, and there are hardly much in the way of UL standards for 600 V or less either. The equipment is wrapped in aluminum foil and then high potted to see if it leaks or arcs across the gaps. If it holds a high voltage (<1 mA leakage), it passes. However there is no NEC rule as to how much the minimum clearance distance should be. There is usually a good deal of "margin" built into terminal blocks though and as you are probably no doubt aware there is a lot of abuse out there. Electricians can do an absolutely horrendous job of routing and terminating cables at terminal blocks and still manage not to cause an arcing fault, particularly at 240 V. As you go up in voltage at 4160 respecting clearances is a much bigger deal. By the time you get to 7200 V if you even lay unshielded cables on a grounded surface you will get tracking and failures. At 15 kV and above, merely nicking some of the insulation when terminating the cable without smooth edges is all it takes to cause a failure. That's why you should be trained to do medium voltage terminations. At 240 VAC cleanliness is usually more of a matter of failures and overheating from being buried in dirt. But at medium voltage cleanliness is critical to safe operation so it is looked at very differently. But it is still instructive to understanding what happens at low voltages.


At low voltages equipment is rated and tested based on both the clearance (distance in air between two conductors) and creepage distance which is the linear distance from one conductor to another along a surface. Creepage distance is usually supposed to be at least twice the air distance as a rule of thumb. So with damage the air distance is probably hardly changed but the creep distance can quickly disappear."



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"Second, yes the burned surface of the plastic is a semiconductor. It is impossible to tell how much the surface is compromised now that it is completely destroyed so there is no way to tell what the conditions were before the incident as far as how compromised it is. Keep in mind that transients exist. A typical rule of thumb is that transients are up to around 150% of the line voltage so with a 240 V system, a 360 V transient wouldn't be all that unusual but in ungrounded systems for instance, transients can get up to 600-800% of line voltage. I doubt that breaker is 300 V class equipment so it is probably rated as 600 V class equipment which means that it is tested for transient protection purposes up to around 2,000 V. That's enough to withstand even a totally ungrounded worst case transient on the system. But that's with new, undamaged equipment. Your equipment was already compromised. The transient withstand would have been much lower. It is quite possible that a transient occurred at the time of landing the wire and that it was just bad luck that the electrician happened to be in the line of fire at the time. As far as transients go, I'm not even referring to lightning. Starting and stopping motors, or the utility performing switching somewhere on their system is all that it takes to create switching transients. So even if it appears to be sound right now, that situation can change in a fraction of a cycle minutes or even days later.

The various NEMA standards out there for flood and fire damage are very specific on how to properly repair equipment after it is damaged. You remove and replace everything that is damaged or contaminated from soot/smoke/liquids. Equipment must be properly repaired if it is reused and that means tested not just visually but electrically as well. A lot of times you can clean up and wipe things off and retest it just to be sure and that's all that needs to be done. BUT if the damage is more than just surface contamination as it was in your case, the equipment must be fully repaired or replaced, no exceptions. It is possible to repair and restore equipment that has been lightly damaged back to full operation. It has to be thoroughly cleaned first. We use dry ice blasting in our repair facility when we can't replace it. Then we use enamels and other coatings when necessary to restore the surface creep properties. Then we test it using the same tests the manufacturer would use (ohms then megger then corona or hi pot testing in this case) to verify that the equipment is back to the original factory tested condition. Companies that do this work on breakers follow PEARL standards for general electrical equipment which would apply in this case. From your description this was not done.



So if I'm following this scenario it sounds like something happened on top of the breaker prior to the actual incident. The breaker was cleaned up but not replaced or sent out to be repaired. Now at this point it is not clear if the breaker had never been put back into service until this incident or that this was the first time that it was placed back into service. If it's the first time then it's just a case of semiconductive charred material reduced the creepage distance to the point where it flashed over. But if this condition had existed for quite some time while in service, then either the circuit changes being made reduced the creepage or clearance distance even further such as burned insulation cracking or flaking off the power cable and/or the breaker, or the installation itself contributed or caused the issue...cable got too close or a frayed strand got too close."

"Basically we have a bunch of phenomena going on that have various names (glow discharge, streaming, corona, sparking) where more or less current draw is very low and resistances are high. These can lead to equipment failures eventually above around 2000 VAC or so. They might look scary since there is a lot of noise associated with them (stand in a utility substation on a very humid or wet day) but they are harmless from a safety (arc flash) point of view. Then at some point we cross the CFO or critical flashover voltage/resistance, defined by IEEE as:

"The amplitude of voltage of a given waveshape that, under specified conditions, causes flashover through the surrounding medium on 50% of the voltage applications."

Flashover means that we transition into a power arc at which point arc voltage is almost constant and current increases dramatically as shown in figure 3 above. Note that this is for DC...I'll get back to the AC part below. Suffice to say that under the right conditions an electric arc forms. When it does, it ignites and extinguishes in picoseconds or nanoseconds so for power and safety purposes it is effectively instantaneous.



NFPA 70E defines arc flash HAZARD as: "A dangerous condition associated with the possible release of energy caused by an electric arc. Informational Note No. 1: An arc flash hazard may exist when energized electrical conductors or circuit parts are exposed or when they are within equipment in a guarded or enclosed condition, provided a person is interacting with the equipment in such a manner that could cause an electric arc. Under normal operating conditions, enclosed energized equipment that has been properly installed and maintained is not likely to pose an arc flash hazard." Although there are multiple effects that are a hazard when it comes to arcing (heat, light, ejected materials), currently only the heat component is considered. Arcing is the phenomena. Arc flash is thermal safety effect of the arc."


 
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WHAT HAPPENS DURING ARC FLASH


"OK, focussing on the phenomena of an arc itself. Once the voltage gets high enough and in this context we're talking about such a fast event that the fact that we're dealing with AC doesn't matter...this is a pure DC discussion that it exceeds the CFO (critical flashover voltage) of the system in it's current state, an arc starts. The core of the arc is a plasma which means that it is so hot that the electrons are so energized that they just float around in a cloud around the general vicinity of the nuclei. Chemical bonds don't really exist so instead of O2, N2, CO2, etc., we just have individual nuclei and a cloud of highly energized electrons. This cloud has very little electrical resistance for obvious reasons and it is also highly magnetic. It pulls in on itself so that effectively the arc diameter is almost a constant at around 1-2 mm. This is what the physicists have figured out about electric arcs. The properties of a plasma are temperature dependent. So physicists get really hung up on calculating plasma temperature.


Energy radiated from this arc core is 99%+ absorbed by the surrounding air though. As air molecules get hot they dump photons to cool down and we perceive photons in the visible spectrum as light. Then once a photon is emitted from one atom if it strikes the next (electron), it passes the energy on at which point it is absorbed and then emitted again in a cascade. Obviously there are losses along the way as the surrounding air absorbs a lot of the energy (heats up) and some passes through to solid objects nearby. That's what you are seeing...you don't actually "see" an arc, you see it's effects and you feel the infrared photons as heat. However nearly all of the energy emitted by the arc core is absorbed and re-emitted around it. So even though the arc core where plasma exists at some crazy high temperature that only a physicist cares about (the "35,000 degrees" claim you see in the arc flash scare literature) that temperature is NEVER seen outside the arc core. If it was, it would vaporize anything exposed to it which is obviously not the case. That's not to say that arcs don't emit a lot of thermal radiation, just trying to be realistic here. If you are at the receiving end of the arc (a shock) then you are being directly exposed to the effects of having all the electrons blown off the nuclei and some skin will be vaporized and it is going to do a lot more damage, but that's not where we're going here.


As far as the arc extinguishing at this point the resistance of the air within the plasma has essentially gone to almost zero. There is nothing to stop the current from flowing with a DC arc at all. There are really only three ways to extinguish a DC arc. First, disconnect the power so that the air cools back down (CFO goes back up) so that it can't reform. Second method is to increase the arc length to the point where the arc is unsustainable. The arc consumes a certain amount of power per unit length to sustain itself. If the arc is too long there isn't enough energy available to keep it going so it goes out.

Now switching over to AC at a DC perspective (milliseconds) if either the normal AC voltage or a transient gets above the CFO (critical flashover voltage) again the arc strikes. Once it strikes the resistance within the arc itself is obviously so low that there's nothing to extinguish the arc even if the voltage drops until the CURRENT goes through a zero which it does so 120 times per second because in this case it's an AC system. So the arc naturally extinguishes. But prior to this happening the air around the arc was also heated up quite a bit. As air temperature increases, resistance decreases. So the CFO also decreases. On the next voltage rise it takes a lot less voltage to restrike the arc. HOWEVER this is all something that you can see from laboratory measurements of arc tests.

In practical calculations we ignore all this because the effect only happens during the first couple restrikes. After that the CFO and thus arc restriking are pretty much constant.
As to your question about how the surface contamination evolves, this is what I was explaining earlier. Even if the arc ablates away some material (vaporizes/burns off) it is also thermally damaging the undamaged layers next to it. It is not going to "burn clean" as you are suggesting. The charred area is going to grow in both surface area and depth, even if material is actually burned away, just as a conventional (non-electrical) fire first chars and then consumes material. Under all circumstances, CFO can only decrease even if the arc does self-extinguish. The only time that CFO ever goes back up is with what is known as "renewable" insulation which is a nice way of saying that if we stop the arc, air will cool back down and electrical resistance through air is restored back to normal."

"It is not "large source incident energy", it is available fault current that drives the intensity of the power arc. Incident energy is the thermal power generated by the arc, scaled for factors like distance from the arc and enclosure geometry, and multiplied by the arcing time in seconds. Aside from maybe a little longer arcing time after the first or second restrike which all happens in 1 cycle (16 milliseconds) before we get to essentially stable conditions, arc power isn't changing. Incident energy increases linearly because it is arc power integrated over time (multiply by arcing time in seconds). Everything else you're talking about doesn't apply and doesn't happen because the limiting factors on arc power are available fault current and arc gap. Arc gap might be increasing as material is burned away but this is only a slight effect and all arc flash models assume arc gap is a constant.
I'm not sure what "micro flash" is. That isn't a term used in electric arc literature. Plasma does not explode. An explosion is a rapid pressure rise caused by rapid expansion of gas. Plasmas are magnetically contained so they don't do that. There is a related effect to arc flash called arc blast that was thought to be a much more significant hazard with high currents than it turns out to be.
Recent experimental evidence has dispelled most of the myths surrounding it. And negative resistance does not play a role except for maybe some macroscopic view of the reduction in the CFO. CFO is really only used conceptually to rate the insulation properties of an electrical system to ensure that an arc does not start. Once it starts, CFO isn't useful anymore. We know it decreases but we don't measure this and we don't care since the equipment has already faulted.


The one thing missing from this discussion is the assumption that an AC arc is self-sustaining. At DC it should be pretty obvious that this is almost always the case. As we get close to instability even DC arcs aren't guaranteed to be self-sustaining. But with AC since it must restrike 120 times per second, this is not guaranteed. As the system voltage decreases below around 300 VAC we are getting close to the minimum possible CFO. The arc just doesn't stay lit long enough to maintain an arc. Arcs tend to be more unstable and often do not restrike. For instance at 208 VAC only a single test was successful in the IEEE testing done for the 2002 edition of 1584. All the other tests failed because the arcs extinguished in the middle of the test. And as another example the ABB HK type circuit breaker which is a 5000 V, 1200 A rated breaker has a mechanical bellows that "blows the arc out" by blowing the hot air away from the electrodes, preventing restriking. In fact it was believed that conditions were not even possible to cause a serious injury or fatality below around 250-300 VAC from an arc flash until about 10 years ago. Then in 2009 a fatality occurred and subsequent laboratory test results proved that there is an arc flash hazard at these voltages, so the stance at low voltages in the 2018 edition of IEEE 1584 has been revised to include voltages down to 208 VAC except for very low fault current (under 2,000 A). So suffice to say that although it is rare and unlikely because stable arcing conditions are also rare and unlikely, serious injuries and fatalities down to around 200 VAC at least it can happen.


So far predicting arc stability hasn't been consistent in any of the experiments so there is no scientific way to prove whether or not a stable arc exists. We upper bound it...we can conservatively estimate the CFO and thus calculate whether or not conditions might be right to allow an arc to form. We have ways to analyze stable arcs (DC and AC arc flash models). We know enough to know how to intentionally and reliably extinguish an arc (breaker and fuse technology) but we cannot predict conditions at the edges...where we are marginally stable or marginally unstable to the point where an arc can go out on its own."


There are much more at https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4873



 
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. . . . There are much more at https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4873


Those posts are really just extensions of everything that overpowered this once interesting subject.

The circular arguments only lead to a fallacy called ad nauseum . . . well . . . often cause someone to become nauseous.
The arguments are repetitious, tautological and monotonous at best.

If you are satisfied with what you have read then by all means more power to you.

However, you can't expect that everyone who reads those “intellectual exchanges” would be content-- and be offered the sense of panacea to all discord that comes with differing opinions.

They (debaters) have their own opinions that they are entitled to.

I am glad that you found solace in perusing their opinions.

Science is not interested in forensics--investigating things that happen after-the-fact. . . it is more concerned about what would happen before-the-fact.

Scientists have insights that most people don't have. . . that's one reason why they don't accept readily other people's opinion. . . the phrases: “you are right”, “I found the smoking gun”are not in their vocabulary.

They are not like those sycophants who have this (following like sheep) behavior.

To behave like one--is unscientific.
 
Those posts are really just extensions of everything that overpowered this once interesting subject.

The circular arguments only lead to a fallacy called ad nauseum . . . well . . . often cause someone to become nauseous.
The arguments are repetitious, tautological and monotonous at best.

If you are satisfied with what you have read then by all means more power to you.

However, you can't expect that everyone who reads those “intellectual exchanges” would be content-- and be offered the sense of panacea to all discord that comes with differing opinions.

They (debaters) have their own opinions that they are entitled to.

I am glad that you found solace in perusing their opinions.

Science is not interested in forensics--investigating things that happen after-the-fact. . . it is more concerned about what would happen before-the-fact.

Scientists have insights that most people don't have. . . that's one reason why they don't accept readily other people's opinion. . . the phrases: “you are right”, “I found the smoking gun”are not in their vocabulary.

They are not like those sycophants who have this (following like sheep) behavior.

To behave like one--is unscientific.



I have one remaining question before I move on from all this.


It's one they didn't answer because of lack of video.

Maybe you have seen or experience this. Do you have any videos how a 120v to chassis short look like. I mean. If in experimental lab, the 120v live wire would be continuously contacted to the chassis. Would it be like a welding spot where you can see continuously short but no arc flash found that can injure a hand since it is commonly believed an arc flash can't sustain in typical US homes with 20kVA transformers?

I basically want to know the difference between short circuit with and without arc flash. I couldn't find video in youtube where there is continuous short between 120v wire and the chassis. How does it look like? Would the appearance be like localized welding or does even this simple short can send slug to the hands? Then why is it called Arc Flash Category 0 (for US residential) when the arms can be injured too. Or this doesn't occur? This is also to tell if what happened in the panel was just a simple short without any involvement of arc flash. That's why I need to see video what's it like to short circuit 120v to panel in US home setup and doing it continuously. But couldn't find even one video like this. So kindly share one if you have seen one. Thank you.
 
Cable assemblies he posted links to, are aluminum conductors, one bare conductor with one strand being a steel support wire - aluminum would stretch too easily if not for that steel strand. That bare is also normally used for the grounded conductor. Then there are insulated conductors wrapped around the bare messenger conductor. They usually have XLPE insulation - much more durable and able to withstand what they will be exposed to than THHN/THWN types of insulation. It is intended for aerial use only and not intended to be run in raceways or to be used below grade at all.

Running in free air gives it different ampacity characteristics than inside cable sheath or raceway. POCO's still use different ampacity selection methods than we use for NEC wiring though. But at same time we have to consider how hot we want to run something inside a building where their stuff is mostly outside buildings or in vaults if inside. If we overheat something there is risk of starting a fire, if they overheat something it is usually more isolated and not as much of a fire risk.

More conductor (of any size or type) between the source and any point of interest means more resistance across that distance which lowers available fault current, compared to what is available at the source. I keep telling you how incident energy is dependent on details. Simply adding 10 feet of supply conductor to an installation adds enough resistance to make a difference in lowering the available fault current to some degree. This is part of why fault current at dwellings is generally considered to be somewhat low - they often have some length of conductor between the dwelling service and the source transformer that is going to be current limiting to some degree, and just 10-20 feet of conductor makes a huge difference in a majority of installs.

More conductor between source and transformer can keep incident lower due to resistance. This I know. But if POCO use smaller wires. It can create more resistance too that can keep the incident energy lower, right?

In the arc flashed panel which injured the electrician arm in 2015. The length of wires between POCO wires and the panel is only 4 feet.

In the residential. The distance between POCO wires and the panel is 130 feet!

Btw. I want to know the difference between short circuit in panels where arc flash risk doesn't exist. Does it mean when a short circuit forms between phase and chassis in US homes. It won't blow a hole in the chassis and the electrician won't be injured by the melting slag or would he still be injured by the vaporizing slags? I just want to know the differences in the damages between Arc Flash Category 0 and Category 1 and how to differentiate them.
 
Basically we have a bunch of phenomena going on that have various names (glow discharge, streaming, corona, sparking) where more or less current draw is very low and resistances are high. These can lead to equipment failures eventually above around 2000 VAC or so. They might look scary since there is a lot of noise associated with them (stand in a utility substation on a very humid or wet day) but they are harmless from a safety (arc flash) point of view. Then at some point we cross the CFO or critical flashover voltage/resistance, defined by IEEE as:

"The amplitude of voltage of a given waveshape that, under specified conditions, causes flashover through the surrounding medium on 50% of the voltage applications."

Flashover means that we transition into a power arc at which point arc voltage is almost constant and current increases dramatically as shown in figure 3 above. Note that this is for DC...I'll get back to the AC part below. Suffice to say that under the right conditions an electric arc forms. When it does, it ignites and extinguishes in picoseconds or nanoseconds so for power and safety purposes it is effectively instantaneous.

Bravo tersh

It strikes me that we know so little of the intricate details of that which we may work on daily

~RJ~
 
Btw. I want to know the difference between short circuit in panels where arc flash risk doesn't exist. Does it mean when a short circuit forms between phase and chassis in US homes. It won't blow a hole in the chassis and the electrician won't be injured by the melting slag or would he still be injured by the vaporizing slags? I just want to know the differences in the damages between Arc Flash Category 0 and Category 1 and how to differentiate them.

'short circuit' is usually taken for a phase to phase event, vs. ground fault which would be phase to ground. The former having much more AIC than the latter

~RJ~
 
Tersh, all I can say is that your research is beyond words spot on. You are asking ALL the right questions. :happyyes::happyyes:
 
How do those differ to THHN?

POCO used wires cheaper than THHN?


I'd argue their insulation is better.


In the Electrical Plan, the engineer can use the same size as POCO's to connect the service entrance main breaker to the POCO conductors arguing making it bigger would be useless since POCO used those size?


But theirs is in air, not in conduit surrounded by building material. Also what about the breaker terminals? Can they handle the hotter wire?


Smaller wires are easy to maneuver inside the main breaker. Here just adding a main breaker would take long city hall process. This is to ensure people won't just change the service entrance panels and breakers anytime. In the US. You can change or alter the gutter or main breaker before the service meters without any permit? (just curious)

You need a permit technically, but if you can do it hot- why not? This stays between us but I knew a guy who did some FPE change outs live. He just capped off the mains- pulled them through the KO and then into the new connector and terminated it live. Just don't do it :lol:
 
Bravo tersh

It strikes me that we know so little of the intricate details of that which we may work on daily

~RJ~

(this message is finally about the Science of Arc Flash and the Engineering (PPE at least)"

I only heard about arc flash for first time last January when a US electrician warned me that my electrician assembling the whole house GFCI panels better be good or the connections could arc flash and set the cabinet on fire. This horrified me. Then slowly I remembered the event in 2015 that was so perplexing where the contractor electrician suffered 2nd degree burn in arms.
I have learnt little by little each day. Today I learnt a lot about the flame retardant fabric used in PPE protection.

But first I want to share something I didn't even know last week, which was about how ionization got triggered when there was potential difference in the gap of the conductors. I read (this is the science of arc flash):

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/lightning2.htm

"When the electric field becomes very strong (on the order of tens of thousands of volts per inch), conditions are ripe for the air to begin breaking down. The electric field causes the surrounding air to become separated into positive ions and electrons -- the air is ionized. Keep in mind that the ionization does not mean that there is more negative charge (electrons) or more positive charge (positive atomic nuclei / positive ions) than before. This ionization only means that the electrons and positive ions are farther apart than they were in their original molecular or atomic structure. Essentially, the electrons have been stripped from the molecular structure of the non-ionized air.

And I read why the arc plasma is so hot:

"Plasma is
superheated matter –
so hot
that the electrons are ripped away from the atoms forming an ionized gas. ... Just as a liquid will boil, changing into a gas when energy
is
added, heating a gas will form a
plasma
– a soup of positively charged particles (ions) and negatively charged particles (electrons)."

The reason arc plasma so hot is because the current is feeding it (incident energy).

Now engineering (esp the PPE). Today I read more than an hour about molten metal and how it can catch fabric on fire and about different flame retardant fabric:

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2010/05/01/Arc-Flash-and-Molten-Metal.aspx?Page=1

"
Electrical equipment primarily utilizes copper to carry the current. When an arc occurs, most or all of the copper is essentially instantly melted and thrown a significant distance. Copper melts at about 1,900 degrees F, so this large volume of molten metal is at least that hot and often hotter. Non-FR-cotton clothing and other non-FR fabrics typically ignite at about 800 degrees F or less, and an arc flash creates large volumes of molten metal at 1,900 degrees F+, traveling significant distances at a high rate of speed. When this molten metal lands on flammable fabric at more than twice the ignition temperature of the fabric, it can easily cause fabric of any weight to ignite, causing a sustained fire. That is why workers in the steel industry and even welders have worn FR clothing since the 1970s."

I researched about auto-ignition temperature and it said the fabric can ignite even without open flame if it reaches the temperature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature
Earlier today I ordered a cheap Madid Arc Flash PPE at amazon (with rating of 10cal/cm2). Then I read the following which made me decided to get the much more expensive professional Oberon:

http://www.dupont.ca/en/products-an...tive/articles/flame-resistant-technology.html
"What are the differences between “inherent” and “treated” flame resistant fabrics?
Inherently flame resistant fibers are materials that have flame resistance built into their chemical structures."

Using the logic. I ordered the $500 total oberon PPE suit. It's hard on the pocket but the only logical choice.

8cmo65.jpg

Shipping and import tax costs $152 alone with total costing $500 but it's better to be safe than worry. My electrician wear mostly thin sleeveless shirt and slippers. I'd required them to use it at every work.

I remembered the inspector and contractor discussing in 2015 about how one of their friends had suffered burns in an industrial facility when his tool dropped to the big panel and the body suffering 2nd degree burns. Now I finally understood what they meant. Industries don't have any arc flash suit here because as you can see above, a single piece of quality PPE alone costs $500 shipped and taxed. Hence none used them a lot here.

I have learnt enough after almost 20 pages of threads. Thanks to all who have helped. My last questions is please describe the short circuit dynamics and calorie magnitude arm length away in Arc Flash Hazard Category 0 and 1. I want to know how they differ. Thanks!

(there are different fonts because I copy and paste the links and quotes from different pages which is opened in my browser. I'll close later that's why I'm just sharing what I learnt in case there is one or two who doesn't know about them.)

 
https://science.howstuffworks.com/na...lightning2.htm

"When the electric field becomes very strong (on the order of tens of thousands of volts per inch), conditions are ripe for the air to begin breaking down. The electric field causes the surrounding air to become separated into positive ions and electrons -- the air is ionized. Keep in mind that the ionization does not mean that there is more negative charge (electrons) or more positive charge (positive atomic nuclei / positive ions) than before. This ionization only means that the electrons and positive ions are farther apart than they were in their original molecular or atomic structure. Essentially, the electrons have been stripped from the molecular structure of the non-ionized air.

can we assume this phenomenon more prevelant with 'load' tersh?

~RJ~
 
can we assume this phenomenon more prevelant with 'load' tersh?

~RJ~

Last week I was discussing with a physicist (separate from the arc flash fellow in brainfiller). He told me how arc flash could occur even if the carbon sooth or trace was only a few thousandth of ampere. It is dependent only on the voltage and incident energy, and loads may not be related to it (I don't know. I didn't continue talking with him much. Let others comment about this). I wrote about what he told me in message #150. This was his exact words:

"It'll carry a lot less than that, probably just thousandths of an amp prior to flashover.
Once the arc is struck electrons acceleratng in the electric field colliding with molecules knock loose more electrons , as described in that second link.
That's what goes on inside a Geiger Counter detector tube, where we call it "gas amplification"
and along a lightning bolt as it grows.
It's often described as 'avalanche'"

He gave me this link.

https://web.stanford.edu/~ajlucas/Br...0Lightning.pdf

And I googled the following:


VCHQ8k.gif



I asked him how ionization started and how voltage triggered it. He gave me this link:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...al/ionize.html

Also told me to watch these videos, explaining they used salt water not graphite (carbon sooth), but the principle was the same.

See #150 for the videos I have shared before, etc.
 
To be fair there are insulators out there with a fair amount of dirt on the them for years on end with no significant signs of tracking or partial discharge:


https://youtu.be/yL4AU_FOro8?t=10

Last week I asked the physicist about it. He told me:

"
Graphite is conductive.
Anything that conducts around an insulator defeats the purpose of that insulator.
Of course excessive carbon dust could initiate an arc.
That's because it reduces the span of the insulating material that's doing the insulating.
A six inch insulator that's 50% covered in graphite dust becomes a three inch insulator".


Another told me what triggered the arc flash was the incident energy which produced greater potential difference between them causing it to ionize faster. In residential, there may not be enough energy to trigger it. But in industrial switchgear, it can initiate major arc flash.

The science is logical.


 
More conductor between source and transformer can keep incident lower due to resistance. This I know. But if POCO use smaller wires. It can create more resistance too that can keep the incident energy lower, right?

In the arc flashed panel which injured the electrician arm in 2015. The length of wires between POCO wires and the panel is only 4 feet.

In the residential. The distance between POCO wires and the panel is 130 feet!

Btw. I want to know the difference between short circuit in panels where arc flash risk doesn't exist. Does it mean when a short circuit forms between phase and chassis in US homes. It won't blow a hole in the chassis and the electrician won't be injured by the melting slag or would he still be injured by the vaporizing slags? I just want to know the differences in the damages between Arc Flash Category 0 and Category 1 and how to differentiate them.
I wouldn't say there is no arc flash risk at all in US homes, just that majority of cases the incident energy is relatively low. To start with you almost never see the source in really close proximity to the service panel, conductor size and length alone is a limiting factor on short circuit current.

'short circuit' is usually taken for a phase to phase event, vs. ground fault which would be phase to ground. The former having much more AIC than the latter

~RJ~
Usually. Sometimes line to neutral fault has higher available fault current, you are usually very close to the source when this happens, doesn't take much conductor length to change that though.
 
Last week I asked the physicist about it. He told me:

"
Graphite is conductive.
Anything that conducts around an insulator defeats the purpose of that insulator.
Of course excessive carbon dust could initiate an arc.
That's because it reduces the span of the insulating material that's doing the insulating.
A six inch insulator that's 50% covered in graphite dust becomes a three inch insulator".


Another told me what triggered the arc flash was the incident energy which produced greater potential difference between them causing it to ionize faster. In residential, there may not be enough energy to trigger it. But in industrial switchgear, it can initiate major arc flash.

The science is logical.



Correct- unsure about the last part but its probably right. I mean a mercury vapor bulb uses an aux electrode- a bit of ionization triggers breakdown of the whole arc tube.


nternal-Circuit-mercury-vapor-lamps.png



270c784df0b9d1fa7f033efb2763579390716d97_large.jpg
 
Correct- unsure about the last part but its probably right. I mean a mercury vapor bulb uses an aux electrode- a bit of ionization triggers breakdown of the whole arc tube.


nternal-Circuit-mercury-vapor-lamps.png



270c784df0b9d1fa7f033efb2763579390716d97_large.jpg

The principle is called "electron avalanche" (I was taught). see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche

Last month when first thinking about it. I thought if the conductive carbon sooth was only very thin and sparse and current passed through it. It could heat up and vaporized then gone and any arc extinguished. My naïve thinking failed to take into account that it was electron avalanche that sustains the arc without any carbon material. The carbon sooth just decreasing the spaces of the insulator and if the incident energy is sufficient, there would be great potential difference that can initiate ionization of air to trigger arc flash.

If you don't agree with any concept. Please clarify as I could misunderstood something.

About arc plasma or plasma in general (because arc is a plasma). It can only occur if there is strong energy source.

LHHeQU.jpg


So plasma involve thermal stuff. But then one may have heard about non-thermal plasma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)#Thermal_vs._nonthermal_(cold)_plasmas

"
Based on the relative temperatures of the electrons, ions and neutrals, plasmas are classified as "thermal" or "non-thermal" (also referred to as "cold plasmas").
  • Thermal plasmas have electrons and the heavy particles at the same temperature, i.e. they are in thermal equilibrium with each other.
    [*]Nonthermal plasmas on the other hand are non-equilibrium ionized gases, with two temperatures: ions and neutrals stay at a low temperature (sometimes room temperature), whereas electrons are much hotter. ( T e ≫ T n {\displaystyle T_{e}\gg T_{n}}
    2843eb098a1abed6f66b9af0a0ca1023b90c8ebb
    ).[31] A kind of common nonthermal plasma is the mercury-vapor gas within a fluorescent lamp, where the "electrons gas" reaches a temperature of 10,000 kelvins while the rest of the gas stays barely above room temperature, so the bulb can even be touched with hands while operating."

    [*]

In arc flash, the energy is supplied by the short circuit current, which depends on the source and impedances of all the connections. When the incident energy is sufficient. The arc forms.

Why is arc plasma more powerful than copper conduction? Because copper vaporizes and what is left are the ionized particles.

A month ago I didn't know all this. It was very basic but missed it. Arc flash is just very basic science stuff.

By the way. Is it possible for coverall to be cut to make separate pants and upper garments?

XvEZfu.jpg


becoming

uj3Cnc.jpg


The electrician will only use it to turn on and off the service entrance breaker in case a service is need in one unit. Wearing upper garments with full face shield and hard cap is sufficient. No need for the pants. I bought the coverall because only it has the inherent flame resistant quality that upper garments stand alone doesn't have (only flame treated cotton which can degrade after a few dozen washes).
 
I wouldn't say there is no arc flash risk at all in US homes, just that majority of cases the incident energy is relatively low. To start with you almost never see the source in really close proximity to the service panel, conductor size and length alone is a limiting factor on short circuit current.

Usually. Sometimes line to neutral fault has higher available fault current, you are usually very close to the source when this happens, doesn't take much conductor length to change that though.

I went to google maps and tried to look at the utility poles and transformers of USA residential.. but had difficulty finding any. Where are they located? Underground?

In my office bldg with arc flashed panel. The wires from service entrance drop to the 3 phase transformers is only 6 meters (20 feet) away (see picture below). How about in US office buildings. Is it this close too? Someone can share some pictures? The following transformers only serves my office building (just 3 units) and one storey office (1 room) besides it. POCO even let me paid for these transformers:


cjxhkl.jpg



This is why even when just turning off the disconnect in the service panels, my electrical stuff or contractor electrician is now required to wear full PPE Cat 2 which includes balaclava:

BpxKNz.jpg


QPpyQS.jpg



Looks weird, isn't it?

Nearly got the following. but don't want to scare people away or get unwanted attention from the Police who has never seen a PPE suit before.

svJDlC.jpg
 
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