SER Cable In Underground Conduit

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aline

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I have a customer that's building a detached garage 50ft. from his existing home. Customer already bought 1-1/2 in. PVC conduit and 2/2/2/4 SER Aluminum cable with and outer sheath.

I told him the NEC doesn't allow SER cable to be installed in PVC conduit buried under ground. He really wants to use this cable since he allready bought it.

I tried looking up the code reference but couldn't find anything that prohibits this.

Is SER cable allowed to be installed in PVC conduit buried underground?

If not what's the code reference that prohibits this installation?

I generally install USE-2 without an outer sheath in underground PVC conduit for this type of installation.

What aluminum cable types do others use for this type of installation.
 
I really don't think this is an issue since the SER is suitable for wet locations. You may have to watch conduit fill.

Also you are suppose to pull the wire after the conduit is installed--- good luck on that one.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I would never get involved in this mess.Legal or not its wrong way to go.Let him finish the job alone.
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Particularly when "mobile home feeder cable" is cheaper, and contains an insulated EGC.
 
UL white book, lists SE cable for aboveground use only and look at 338.10 (B) (4) (b)
 
mpd said:
UL white book, lists SE cable for aboveground use only and look at 338.10 (B) (4) (b)
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I don't consider in conduit to be underground. It is in conduit not directly buried in the ground.
 
Check 338.2. The definitions explain that USE is for underground and SE is not.

IMO If he really wants to use the SER (I believe the conductors inside are USE-2), He could cut the covering off and remove the bare AL #4 and replace it with either bare copper (338.100) or #4 AL USE-2
 
dennis

so the conductors in an underground conduit are aboveground? after I got done laughing you would get a red sticker and be replacing the feeder
 
donselectric said:
i dont think you can strip the jacket off.. now there is no listing on the conductors...
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Oddly, on some there is. I suspect that the cable manufacturers use some of the conductors otherwise marked for use as conductors as part of their cable assemblies. I sometimes strip NM cable and find the interior conductors with THHN markings. Much of the SER that I've bought lately has had markings on the conductors. It's a crap shoot, and not something I'd ever do on purpose.
 
donselectric said:
i dont think you can strip the jacket off.. now there is no listing on the conductors...
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Strip the jacket off and look at the conductors inside. Read the printing on the insulation of the conductors and it'll say USE-2
 
mpd said:
dennis

so the conductors in an underground conduit are aboveground? after I got done laughing you would get a red sticker and be replacing the feeder
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I didn't say I endorse this installation. I, too, think it is absurd but I do not see the difference if it is conduit above ground or underground. I think this argument can go on forever and we will all have differences of opinion. Mine, of course, is the correct one.:grin: :D
 
dennis

I feel the same about my opinion, this subject has been beat to death, but I am glad to hear you do not endorse this type of installation
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't consider in conduit to be underground. It is in conduit not directly buried in the ground.
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Being inside conduit means it is not direct-buried, but conduit is not a location. Conductors inside conduit are located wherever the conduit is located.

Even above ground, conductors inside conduit should be rated for wet locations. Some debate this, but underground conduit's being a wet location is undisputed.
 
LarryFine said:
Being inside conduit means it is not direct-buried, but conduit is not a location. Conductors inside conduit are located wherever the conduit is located.

Even above ground, conductors inside conduit should be rated for wet locations. Some debate this, but underground conduit's being a wet location is undisputed.
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Larry is correct. conduit located below grade means the conductors in the conduit are also considered below grade.

This job sounds like a "low budget" job. I always thought ECs were in business to make money, not a living.
 
mpd said:
UL white book, lists SE cable for aboveground use only and look at 338.10 (B) (4) (b)
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Looking at the White Book, I see this:

Type SE ? Indicates cable for aboveground installation. Both the individual insulated conductors and the outer jacket or finish of Type SE are suitable for use where exposed to sun. Type SE cable contains Type RHW, RHW-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, THWN or THWN-2 conductors.
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If I were to say that a 3R metermain combo is for outdoor installation, does that prohibit it's use indoors? If you can find a prohibition from running SE-R underground, you will end this argument for good. In the past discussions, this was never achieved.

In the meantime, 300.5 requires cables installed in raceways underground to be listed for wet locations, as SE-R is. I didn't see anything in the reference you cited that seemed to remove SE-R from that list. :)
 
Thanks Guys.

I don't know why he bought the SER cable. He didn't buy anything else just the SER cable. The guy is a retired linesman for the power company.

I don't like it when people buy there own materials. I'll still do the job but I make sure I charge enough to make it worth it. The customer buying their own materials doesn't save them a dime but voids their warranty. I only warranty materials supplied by me. I don't do T&M. They get a price for the whole job. I don't lower my price because they went out and bought $200 worth of materials. They only think they're saving money. My price isn't going to be any lower wether I use the his SER cable or supply my own wire.

I don't think the guy is to much of a cheapskate. He was willing to pay my dispatch fee to come out and give him an estimate. I don't give free estimates and my dispatch fee usually weeds out the cheapskates.

As of right now I told him I couldn't use the SER cable and would supply the wire for the job. He was fine with that. I just assumed it was a code violation to use the SER cable in underground conduit but coudn't find the code reference that prohibits this.

I prefer not to pull cable with an outer covering in any conduit.
I was just wanting to know if using the SER cable in this manner would be a code violation.
Sound like its a matter of opinion and the only person that could answer this for me would be the AHJ.
 
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aline said:
...I prefer not to pull cable with an outer covering in any conduit. ...
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Disclaimer: I'm not a residential guy. As I told bob a couple of years ago, "I'm not sure I've ever seen SE cable". I've read all of this post, and 11 of the 13 pages of the last one.

The quoted statement above baffles me. I've seen this come up several times, and none have had limitations attached. Is this a blanket statement for all cables, all disciplines? Or is this just about residential installations, SE, SER, NM?

Educate me please. I truly don't see why this would be.

carl
 
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