Service Disconnecting Means - Outside

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Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

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Westchester County, New York
In reading Jeff Sargent's article in the NEC Digest, I have a question to ask all here who wish to participate.

The location requirements of the service disconnecting means when installed outside of (not attached to) the building is found in 230.70(A)(1).

If one was to install the disconnecting means away from the building, how far from the building would you say is permitted before having to apply 225.32?


I have been asked this question myself in my jurisdiction, but I am curious how others feel about this topic.
 
this question was on my test and i could not find it any where. the answers where 10' 15' 20' or 25' so its not 50' i answered 25' but im not sure if i was correct.
 
225.32 requires the disconnect at the nearest point of entrance of the conductors, so if the remote disconnecting means is 50', 25' or even 1' then its still not the nearest point of entrance of the conductors. IMO, the disconnect must be on the building to qualify as the nearest point of entrance.
 
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kbsparky said:
I might suggest that the "within sight" rule be applied here, and that would be 50 feet or less. :D
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The service disconnecting means for a building 50 ft away from the building...I can just see that....


I am aware that the NEC does not specify a particular distance, I am curious what would make sense to others.

Bill - do you really think up to 50 ft is fine or are you pulling my leg?
 
kjless said:
this question was on my test and i could not find it any where. the answers where 10' 15' 20' or 25' so its not 50' i answered 25' but im not sure if i was correct.
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what test was this?

I took the AMP test for my license and there were several that did not list answers exactly as found in the code; if it asked the furthest, and we assume 50', with 25' being available and the furthest of your options, that would be the correct answer.
 
I don't see how locating the service outside anywhere on the premises could throw you into the chapter on branch circuits and feeders.
the text found at 230.70(A)(1) "..........either outside of a building or structure......." is not location specific. I know of a few public campsites where the service is primary and all the other disconnects in various buildings are "feeders".
It's different for a mobile home (550.32(A))where it has to be within 30 feet.:smile:
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
The service disconnecting means for a building 50 ft away from the building...I can just see that....


I am aware that the NEC does not specify a particular distance, I am curious what would make sense to others.
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I would say take it on a case by case basis. That said I don't want to be on the hunt for the disconnect that someone has "creatively located". "Readily accessible location" is one of those terms I see as being there for safety/emergency reasons not convenience. So IMO you would need to show that it could not be located on or at the building before putting it 25' away.
 
wbalsam1 said:
I don't see how locating the service outside anywhere on the premises could throw you into the chapter on branch circuits and feeders.
the text found at 230.70(A)(1) "..........either outside of a building or structure......." is not location specific. I know of a few public campsites where the service is primary and all the other disconnects in various buildings are "feeders".
It's different for a mobile home (550.32(A))where it has to be within 30 feet.:smile:
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Fred
You live up there in the boonies, so I can understand how you do not understand...;):grin:


Art 225 is Outside Branch Circuits and Feeder.

If the service disconnect is far enough away from the building, and on the same property, then the conductors on the loadside of the service disconnect are considered either feeder or branch circuit conductors, and Art 225 would apply.

So...how far is too far or how close is close enough???
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
In reading Jeff Sargent's article in the NEC Digest, I have a question to ask all here who wish to participate.

The location requirements of the service disconnecting means when installed outside of (not attached to) the building is found in 230.70(A)(1).

If one was to install the disconnecting means away from the building, how far from the building would you say is permitted before having to apply 225.32?


I have been asked this question myself in my jurisdiction, but I am curious how others feel about this topic.
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Pierre,

In my opinion they can install the service disconnect technically anywhere outside within reason ( we may set limits as the local AHJ would provide ) and since the requirements of 230.70(A)(1) say it may be outside and gives no distance we do not try to read anything into it. However, being it is NOW another structure and now a feeder to the building in question it brings in 225.32 and that requirement is not as lax on the subject.

225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed
either inside or outside of the building or structure
served or where the conductors pass through the building or
structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily
accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors.
For the purposes of this section, the requirements
in 230.6 shall be utilized.

230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting
means shall be installed at a readily accessible location
either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the
point of entrance of the service conductors.

The specifics are different on each in regards to 230.70(A)(1) versus 225.32 in my opinion when it tries to apply readily accessible and in my view and how our local AHJ views it.....nearest the point on entry as in 225.32 limits our choices....but then again thats my interp only...others may disagree.
 
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A free standing 3R switch gear is not "attached to the structure" but if it is right at the building it serves, thats good enough for me to not call it a separate structure, and require another disconnect in the building. So how far you let that switchgear start to move from the building before saying it is "to far" is not a generic length you can state.
 
acrwc10 said:
A free standing 3R switch gear is not "attached to the structure" but if it is right at the building it serves, thats good enough for me to not call it a separate structure, and require another disconnect in the building. So how far you let that switchgear start to move from the building before saying it is "to far" is not a generic length you can state.
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I guess we defer to the definition of "structure "- Structure. That which is built or constructed.

If you build it or construct it......it is now a structure.
 
radiopet said:
I guess we defer to the definition of "structure "- Structure. That which is built or constructed.

If you build it or construct it......it is now a structure.
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So are you saying a free standing switch gear 4" away from the building it serves would require the building to need another "disconnecting means" inside or attached to it ?? Sounds a little excessive to me.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
The location requirements of the service disconnecting means when installed outside of (not attached to) the building is found in 230.70(A)(1).

If one was to install the disconnecting means away from the building, how far from the building would you say is permitted before having to apply 225.32?
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Your original post is discussing the SERVICE disconnecting means, not a FEEDER disconnecting means.


Pierre C Belarge said:
Fred
You live up there in the boonies, so I can understand how you do not understand...;):grin:
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Even though I don't get Monday Night Football 'til Wednesday :D I can still read what your post says...and it's discussing SERVICE disconnecting means.

Pierre C Belarge said:
Art 225 is Outside Branch Circuits and Feeder.
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How did we get to this part of the code?:-? What text in 230.70(A)(1) referring to outside service disconnect location forced you in to "Outside Feeder disconnects"?

Pierre C Belarge said:
"If the service disconnect is far enough away from the building, and on the same property, then the conductors on the loadside of the service disconnect are considered either feeder or branch circuit conductors," and Art 225 would apply.
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Point me to where that is stated, please. Of course, we all know the conductors on the load side of the service disconnect are no longer service conductors, but where in the code does it specifically state if the service conductors are far enough away you're required to convert them to feeders..? (Other than my reference to Art 550.)

Pierre C Belarge said:
So...how far is too far or how close is close enough???
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Must be different if you live in the boonies.:grin:
 
Around here I deal with what we call "farm load centers" which consist of typically a 400 meter base with 2 - 200 amp main disconnects. One disconnect serves the dwelling and the other serves a detached pole barn or grain drying equipment. The farm load center is grounded, then 3-wire run to the other structures and ground is then re-established at each location. The distance between the 2 has never been considered a problem and I have seen cases where the disconnect is put on a pole 30 feet into the propoerty, then a disconnect, then 200 feet back to a structure. Not a favorite of the fire department, but the utility company charges a fortune to run past a certian distance.
 
Bein' a southerner, we don't see a lot of that white stuff. But as I watch on TV and see snow drifts 6ft and higher, I'd not want to think the service disconnect is located "somewhere out there". I can certaily see an AHJ enforcing 225.32 if the service disocnnect was any distance at all from the structure.
 
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