Several arc fault breakers in panels

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arc fault

arc fault

why don't you just use arc fault receptacles. This will limit the number of breakers in panel and leave you with just lighting circuits. Also, see if they make an arc fault MAIN BREAKER. good luck!
 
crush said:
why don't you just use arc fault receptacles. This will limit the number of breakers in panel and leave you with just lighting circuits. Also, see if they make an arc fault MAIN BREAKER. good luck!
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Have you seen any arc fault receptacles?????
 
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crush said:
why don't you just use arc fault receptacles.
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Could an arc ever happen between the panel (standard OCPD) and this recept. (afic'ed)?

What would be the point in using such an animal(if it exsisted)?
 
Well if they existed AFCI receptacles would have to be installed within 6' of the panel as the entire branch circuit must AFCI protected not just the outlet.
 
iwire said:
Well if they existed AFCI receptacles would have to be installed within 6' of the panel as the entire branch circuit must AFCI protected not just the outlet.
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Which still doesn't make any sense to me ...6' of the house is "expendable"?
 
Soory for not reading the wholethread,.... but are those breakers listed for 3 phase panels ??

IMPORTANT SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS FOR INSTALLING CIRCUIT BREAKER BRANCH/FEEDER 120/240 2-POLE COMMON TRIP ARC FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER (AFCI).

What is an Arc Fault Breaker?
It is a new type of circuit breaker with additional circuit protection, which mitigates the effects of an arcing fault.

READ ALL INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE USING

WARNING


FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS COULD RESULT IN DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY OR PROPERTY DAMAGE.
1. Circuit breaker should be installed by a qualified electrician only.
2. Install circuit breaker on a single phase 120/240 VAC 60 Hz power supply system.
3. WARNING. TURN OFF POWER AT THE MAIN BREAKER BEFORE BEGINNING INSTALLATION. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL RISK ELECTRICAL SHOCK & POSSIBLY DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY OR PROPERTY DAMAGE.
4. To turn off power to circuit breaker, move main breaker handle firmly to the ?OFF? position.
5. Plug the circuit breaker into the desired breaker position.
6. Diagrams shown are for typical NM-B cable; wire as required.
 
It actually does make some sense, I read that the reason was to allow an AFCI device mounted near a panel that could not except a AFCI breaker.
 
iwire said:
That 6' has to be in metal raceway or cable....it makes perfect sense now...:rolleyes:
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That 6' has to be in metal raceway or cable with a
metallic sheath.


But as the animal is non-exsistant ...
 
celtic said:
That 6' has to be in metal raceway or cable with a
metallic sheath...
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Well yeah....I thought thats what I said. A metal raceway or cable.

I think the code section is actually redundant.:grin:
 
Do you guys think that since the code panel is removing the 6' rule that the wiring device guys will get us an AFCI recept? I can't see it being cost effective to put in conduit to the first recept.
 
oldcrow said:
Do you guys think that since the code panel is removing the 6' rule that the wiring device guys will get us an AFCI recept? I can't see it being cost effective to put in conduit to the first recept.
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Being as there isn't an AFCI recept. on the market...who knows?
 
I doubt you'll see one. there's not business case pretty enough for guys like Leviton and P&S and others. I'm not complaining. I hate sticking an oversized receptacle into an undersized box.
 
Considering the only portion of that revision was to remove the Metal Conduit or Metallic Sheath Cable portion, I would say we are not closer to a AFCI Receptacle at this point. The problem with the receptacle concept is it would not protect the entire circuit..so up to the receptacle would still be an issue....so that makes it a tough sell....I am guessing anyway.

2008 - Verbage
Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter
shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the
branch circuit where the arc-fault circuit interrupter is installed
within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent
device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.
[ROP 2?147, 2?137]

2005 Verbage -
Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter
shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the
branch circuit in compliance with (a) and (b):
(a) The arc-fault circuit interrupter installed within
1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent device as
measured along the branch circuit conductors.
(b) The circuit conductors between the branch circuit
overcurrent device and the arc-fault circuit interrupter
shall be installed in a metal raceway or a cable with a
metallic sheath.
 
I was just handed a product spec page from Cutler Hammer on their AFCI's and they said, in about the third paragraph, that these 2-pole AFCI breakers were only for use on single phase, 120/240v systems. The system at the Marriot is a 3-phase, 120/208v system.
So, the inspector is going to confront the contractor this morning and I will be contacting CH and UL about this to see just what they say..........I really wish this would end.......lol.
 
I was just handed a product spec page from Cutler Hammer on their AFCI's and they said, in about the third paragraph, that these 2-pole AFCI breakers were only for use on single phase, 120/240v systems.
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Now the question becomes, "are they suitable for use on a single phase system that is derived from two hots and the grounded conductor from a 3 phase system?" In many areas this is a common feed from the utility.
Don
 
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