Show of hands

Learn the NEC with Mike Holt now!

Show of hands

  • I have both AFCI breakers and TR receptacles.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I have AFCI but not TR.

    Votes: 22 19.1%

  • I have TR but not AFCI.

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • I have neither AFCI nor TR.

    Votes: 91 79.1%
  • Total voters
    115
  • Poll closed .
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electricmanscott said:
This TR- AFCI debate is exhausting.

For the record, since I am well aware whom this thread is aimed at...
:rolleyes:
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Scott, you posted three times in three minutes, no wonder you are exausted. Slow down.

Don't get paranoid, this is not aimed at you. You stated that you wish to make money from the installation of these items and I can understand that.

This is very simple. It's to see if anyone considers these items important enough to install in their own homes.

If a doctor were to percribe a certain medication or recommend a treatment for your children wouldn't you wonder if he would treat his own in the same manner.

4 out of 5 dentist recommend Crest but that doesn't mean they brush their teeth with it. If you wanted the best product you would ask what 4 out of 5 dentist use. :)
 
No, I don't have TR or AFCI's in my home. I bought a whole bunch of TR's that where being closed out at HD, and I intend to install them when/if I have children.

I now support the changes that the NEC has made, and I will no longer voice my resistance to these rules here on the forum as I have in the past.

I don't like the fact that AFCI's are an unproven technology, and where rushed into the code. Still, they are made (in theory at least) to stop arcing faults. That's a good thing. If they can ever get them to actually do it I will be happy. In the meantime we are stuck with the rule.

Edit: so why not add to the absurdity. ;)
 
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I don't have any AFCI breakers or TR receptacles in my home. But, honestly, I think the reason is that I haven't done any electrical alterations, or extended any circuits, or added new ones, so I haven't focused on updating to safer conditions. I, too, have GFCI's and smoke and carbon monoxide detectors. :smile:
 
i am not a residential contractor--but try my best to keep up on the code. from the words of mike holt -- "it is easier to learn and understand the code when you know the reason why new items are introduced and mandated by the nec! well, i remember the introduction to the afic rules and the reason sounded reasonable--"many home fires are caused by pinched cords behind furniture and this afci would sense the arc and de-energize the circuit"........ sounds good and thats the way i remembered. now recently i'm wiring my own house and the inspector asked me "you DO have the smoke detectors on a afci circuit?". of course i didn't--figured they were hard wired--no cord to pinch???? no--- he explains everything in the bedrooms have to be on afic circuits????
 
220/221 said:
How can a WHOLE DISCUSSION be absurd?


Relax and open up a litle.

Knowing how other people think is a good thing.
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I'm relaxed as can be. :cool:


I seem to remember a long discussion about taped wirenuts a while back. ;)
 
Well I can see that comment has gone over quite well. :D


Let me put it another way: Accept & adapt, or uproot. I don't know where I heard it but that's my way of looking at these new rules. So the manufacturers control the industry. Big deal. When did they not control the industry? :confused:
 
My house was built in 1909, and had K&T when we moved in. We upgraded everything as we went through the house. At that time AFCI's weren't necessary, but we are all up to code aside from that.

TR's just seem like a real pain to me, I don't plan to add them just for the sake of it.
 
My home was built in 1925 rewired I think by the looks of it in the '60's I don't have any of the "safety" stuff in my home I don't push them on people I do all my installs code compliant and beyond I think making people install TR's is retarded but we will do it when the state requires it, and I don't wear my seatbelt I hate locked doors. oh well.
 
I can see problems on all sides with the TR issue.

First, 2,400 kids a year go to the emergency room after sticking things in receptacles

Where does that figure come from? Bet it's the TR lobbyists. For the life of me I can't understand how so many kids have actually been injured from "sticking something into a recepticle". Think about what would have to happen for injury to occur. The liklihood of a toddler finding a metallic object with the proper dimensions to fit in both slots of a recepticle borders on the impossible. That is the only way that an injury would be guaranteed. Putting a metallic object in the neutral or ground will do no harm. Even contacting the hot will do no harm unless the child is also in contact with a grounded object. I will concede that in the case of baseboard heat this could pose a problem but otherwise it's unlikely.

My opinion then is that this number is based on overreacting parents, kids playing with cords or plugs already plugged into the recepticle and older kids doing something they should know enough not to do.

Second, I don't know how TR receptacles are going to make anybody money, maybe to retrofit but not in the long run. When manufacturers replace regular receptacles with TR it will be like when non-grounded receptacles were replaced by grounding receptacles. We will all use them and the prices will be the same.

So as I see it, I can't see the reasoning for TR recepticles but I also can't see the harm.

-Hal
 
I am trying to figure out what this poll could possibly tell us. The fact that there are, at this time, 16 people who have arc faults in their home does not tell us that they were put it due to safety. They could be there because the code required them..... so --- what does that tell us.

The fact that there are 65 members who don't have them tells us more than any other statement.

I also find it unusually that someone has TR receptacles but not arc fault. Must have kids.... Arc faults were required before TR so that one surprised me.

Anyone-- just my thoughts. :)
 
hbiss said:
I can see problems on all sides with the TR issue.

First, 2,400 kids a year go to the emergency room after sticking things in receptacles


The liklihood of a toddler finding a metallic object with the proper dimensions to fit in both slots of a recepticle borders on the impossible. That is the only way that an injury would be guaranteed. Putting a metallic object in the neutral or ground will do no harm. Even contacting the hot will do no harm unless the child is also in contact with a grounded object.

-Hal
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"The liklihood of a toddler finding a metallic object with the proper dimensions to fit in both slots of a recepticle borders on the impossible."

If you keep them caged, it may not happen.

"Putting a metallic object in the neutral or ground will do no harm."

Is that a fact! Could this be a reason many don't see a need for them, they don't understand the hazard.
 
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hbiss said:
First, 2,400 kids a year go to the emergency room after sticking things in receptacles

Where does that figure come from? Bet it's the TR lobbyists.
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Hal the numbers come from hospital emergency rooms over the course of ten years and 2,400 hundred was the average, there where also four deaths over that time. When another study was done in Canada very similar numbers where found.


For the life of me I can't understand how so many kids have actually been injured from "sticking something into a receptacle". Think about what would have to happen for injury to occur. The liklihood of a toddler finding a metallic object with the proper dimensions to fit in both slots of a recepticle borders on the impossible.
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Hal, regardless of what you think can happen, it is happening.

If you really want to see all the info on where the numbers came from I will post them here in this thread. :)

It breaks down how many of each accident happen, how many minor burns, how many serious burns, what was used to stick in the receptacle etc.
 
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