Show of hands

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Show of hands

  • I have both AFCI breakers and TR receptacles.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I have AFCI but not TR.

    Votes: 22 19.1%

  • I have TR but not AFCI.

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • I have neither AFCI nor TR.

    Votes: 91 79.1%
  • Total voters
    115
  • Poll closed .
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One of the junior members weighing in here... FWIW, IMHSO

Tiz a silly poll indeed.

But I'm a team player, so I voted :roll: Mine house was built 1977 - All bed circs. are MWBC. At least I dont allow extension cords in the bedrooms.
 
From the list of objects: Body part (finger)

Somebody tell me how the heck a finger will fit in a recepticle slot. I don't care how young the kid is, I don't think even a premie's finger will fit.

"Statistics" like that cast doubt on the whole substantiation. Remember, causes reported for these injuries are in essence heresay. The parent, who is no expert and is emotional and not clearly thinking finds the child after the fact and reports to the ER doctor what they think has happened. That's where these statistics come from.

I would like to know how many injuries were caused by damaged, defective or improperly installed receptacles. You know a parent isn't going to know the difference and will just blame the kid.

-Hal
 
I'm not really sure where to put my vote in the poll. The original part of my house (built in the 70's) has neither. We put an addition on 4 years ago and were required to have AFCI's. One of the AFCI's was repeatedly tripping. Sometimes it would hold for 2 days sometimes for 15 minutes. I've been doing residential work for quite awhile and did everything I could to troubleshoot this problem but could not isolate which section of wire was causing the problem, as it seemed to move around. All I could think of was I'm glad I don't have to charge a customer for this goose chase 'cause I don't think they would be too happy to have me back constantly and not find the problem. As soon as the final electrical was signed off I removed the AFCI breaker and replaced it w/ a standard one and haven't had aproblem since. And oddly enough I sleep pretty well at night.
 
I have TR and they are pain in a--but I have gotten used to them..They are old style 2 wire type..I live in 1950's house and as I remodel I upgrade..but no need for AFCI dont really believe they are worth while..GFCI are worth while and I believe so are TR.. Yet I am still out on a AFCI breakers which requires such a high amp spark to work ( I believe I read somewhere around 70 amps) Dont see it myself..GFCI portion is what works and I do believe in GFCI..
 
hbiss said:
From the list of objects: Body part (finger)

Somebody tell me how the heck a finger will fit in a recepticle slot. I don't care how young the kid is, I don't think even a premie's finger will fit.
Click to expand...


I assumed that the 12% where a finger was inserted that the cover plate was missing. That's the only way a finger is going to fit. Even for a TR to work the cover plate will need to be in place.

There was another article that stated that most of these accidents happen at meal times when children are left unattended.

If you look on the NFPA site they estimate that between 6-12 children die each year because of these accidents. ( where did they get these estimates, I can't find them anywhere?)

The CPSC states that for the average home the total cost of both TR recptacles and AFCI's will be $250 or less. They estimate $50 for the TR's and $200 for the AFCI's for a total of ten circuits. These are the same people that make the estimate for the number of children injured.

There is already a 2011 proposal for a "Dingo Alarm System". It appears that a Dingo ate someone's baby. Just Joking about that one. :grin:
 
growler said:
I assumed that the 12% where a finger was inserted that the cover plate was missing. That's the only way a finger is going to fit. Even for a TR to work the cover plate will need to be in place.
Click to expand...

So how would a TR recep solve that?
 
growler said:
If you look on the NFPA site they estimate that between 6-12 children die each year because of these accidents. ( where did they get these estimates, I can't find them anywhere?)
Click to expand...

The substantiation provide for the code change claimed 4 deaths over the course of 10 years.

Can you find where the NFPA says '6-12'?
 
Does anyone realize we are having a discussion about a receptacle that costs 95 cents? If I didn't know better, I might think this TR receptacle costs $95 a piece. :roll:

Oh, and the combo AFCI breakers from Homeline costs $38 at Lowes, probably less at a SqD distributor. That's a real budget buster. :roll:
 
My neice and her husband were over my house last week. They have two girls aged 1 and 4 years. We ordered a couple of pizzas. We sit down to eat and I notice that the husband has pair of scissors and is cutting the pizza. WHAT? I remark that I have never seen anyone cut pizza with scissors. He says "they do if they have kids".

I guess they were afraid that one of the kids was going to grab the knife and stick it into a receptacle. This is the mindset we are talking about.

I should show them the statistics from above that says girls don't do things like this.

-Hal
 
peter d said:
Does anyone realize we are having a discussion about a receptacle that costs 95 cents? If I didn't know better, I might think this TR receptacle costs $95 a piece. :roll:

Oh, and the combo AFCI breakers from Homeline costs $38 at Lowes, probably less at a SqD distributor. That's a real budget buster. :roll:
Click to expand...

My objection to this rule is not about cost, It is about the NFPA thinking they are going to save the world from electrical hazards. It is not going to happen, and those of us who deal close with the customer every day don't like to explain why we can't just replace that bad receptacle with one that looks just like it. but instead they will now might need to change all of them to make them match. Or better yet we have juristictions here that like to make people bring things up to current code when they have a remodle done. "Yes maam I know you just want your basement finished but if you want to continue living in your home I will have to change out all of your receptacles, Yep all 100 of them, cuz the government wants to protect you from yourself."
 
hbiss said:
My neice and her husband were over my house last week. They have two girls aged 1 and 4 years. We ordered a couple of pizzas. We sit down to eat and I notice that the husband has pair of scissors and is cutting the pizza. WHAT? I remark that I have never seen anyone cut pizza with scissors. He says "they do if they have kids".

I guess they were afraid that one of the kids was going to grab the knife and stick it into a receptacle. This is the mindset we are talking about.

I should show them the statistics from above that says girls don't do things like this.

-Hal
Click to expand...

They really should outlaw those pizza cutters I mean you could cut off all the fingers on one hand if you are a small child leaving only one good hand for sticking things into receptacles.
 
To sell code books at 75 bucks a pop so the CMP members can get a nice vacation every year?

Forgive me, I couldn't help it. The CMPs do a wonderful and thankless job.
 
iwire said:
:confused:

Hal, what is the purpose of the NEC?
Click to expand...

Hal Might think it is to stop Fires but I'm Dan. I know that the code is good but the National Fire Protection Agency can't stop all the electrical hazards from happening no matter what they try and they are getting ridiculous IMO. now if those kids were lighting up into balls of fire and causing fire hazzards I could see the point (now I am getting ridiculous) I think the NFPA is going too far thats all I am saying.

Oh yeah GO PATS!
 
bikeindy said:
I'm Dan,
Click to expand...

I apologize Dan.
icon11.gif
 
We don't have small kids, so did not feel like we needed TR receptacles. I did try to install AFCI breakers at my house, but found out that my bedroom circuits were multi-branch, and that the regular AFCI's won't work with these. e/m
 
What is the purpose of the NEC? To protect people and property. No question there. Problem is are they getting too "political" and manipulated by manufacturers who are eager to sell a product because they claim it is needed.

It's kind of like the FDA being lobbied to approve a new drug that a drug company made all kind of claims about. Then we come to find out a few years later that it really does nothing.

-Hal
 
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