There is more to it than that.
Auxiliary gutters are...
Your example's description doesn't have enough info to say it is a gutter.
Sizing a Wire Trough Correctly?
- Thread starter EMCelec
- Start date
- Status
Auxiliary gutters are...
I haven't looked it up, but would the CFL version be under the same listing standard?
Auxiliary Gutters and Wireways are evaluated under the same UL listing standard.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
really? It would seem to me if it was connected to a panelboard it must be supplementing that panelboard to some degree, if it is not supplementing it then maybe it is there to provide mechanical support:huh::blink::happyno:
Distinguishing between gutter and wireway is an extremely blurred line, which I cannot provide any clarity beyond what I have already mentioned.
It was noted earlier by another that distinction hinged on whether used as a raceway or not. I don't believe that to be technically correct. Neither a gutter or wireway is defined as a raceway, even if used in similar capacity. That's where IMO using a raceway transition at the distribution panel comes into the distinction of one versus the other.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
OK, I may buy that - the "wireway" in a way is essentially an extension of the space in the distribution panel if you use a full sized transition fitting instead of a raceway nipple to connect them. As you said it is an extremely blurred line as most rules for either are nearly identical.
The gutter can not extend more then 30 feet (IIRC) beyond the equipment it is supplementing, but that doesn't mean you couldn't have a 100 foot or more run of gutter as long as it has some sort of supplemented equipment placed at least every 30 feet.
J.P.
Senior Member
- Location
- United States
This thread has officially derailed
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I can see one rationale behind allowing a much higher fill for an aux gutter than for a wireway:
If you consider it as an extension of the panel or whatever, you really should just add its volume to the free volume of the enclosure it abuts, then calculate total fill for the combination.
As a more enforceable approximation, you get to use 70% of the gutter volume.
That does, however, have the side effect of allowing the higher fill in the portion of the gutter that extends beyond the enclosure and is really acting as a wireway.
Tapatalk!
If you consider it as an extension of the panel or whatever, you really should just add its volume to the free volume of the enclosure it abuts, then calculate total fill for the combination.
As a more enforceable approximation, you get to use 70% of the gutter volume.
That does, however, have the side effect of allowing the higher fill in the portion of the gutter that extends beyond the enclosure and is really acting as a wireway.
Tapatalk!
That is correct. I couldn't find it earlier because of limited access, but that restriction is under Uses Not Permitted [366.12(2)].
As I too was corrected on this earlier, a gutter's conductor fill is limited to 20% [366.22], same as a wireway [376.22, 378.22].I can see one rationale behind allowing a much higher fill for an aux gutter than for a wireway:
If you consider it as an extension of the panel or whatever, you really should just add its volume to the free volume of the enclosure it abuts, then calculate total fill for the combination.
As a more enforceable approximation, you get to use 70% of the gutter volume.
That does, however, have the side effect of allowing the higher fill in the portion of the gutter that extends beyond the enclosure and is really acting as a wireway.
Tapatalk!
Where splices and taps are made, the fill at that cross section is permitted to be up to 75%, including the area of the splice and tap devices [366.56(A)]. This too is the same as wireway [376.56, 378.56].
Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials
designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars,
with additional functions as permitted in this Code.
Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit,
rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight
flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible
metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic
tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways,
cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways,
and busways.
Ahh... so it appears wireways are raceways. I was looking at 376.2 and 378.2. Should be noted in the definition under its respective article... but alas it is not. :blink:
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Raceway is a term used throughout the code that is why it is defined in art 100 - but you knew that.
- Location
- Massachusetts
In my real world I don't see the fact that a wireway and an auxiliary gutter are listed to the same standard making any difference at all.
My perspective is much more simple, if the inspector looks at the UL tag in the wireway and it says 'wireway' the inspector will treat it as wireway per 110.3(B).
I have yet to see an 'auxiliary gutter' tag in any equipment that I can remember.
...And you likely will never see such a tag. As noted earlier, the conditions of use and installation make it an auxiliary gutter. There is no difference in design.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
You will only see that if the gutter is an accessory that is supplied by the panel manufacturer...everything else is a wireway. If you have feed through riser panels, where the splice is on the side of the actual panel enclosure, that enclosure on the side with the tap connections would be an auxiliary gutter.
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
That is exactly what I expected and has been my point in this thread and other previous ones threads about it.
Smart and it seems the handbook feel a wireway becomes an auxiliary gutter when installed in a certain way. IMO that would be in direct conflict with 110.3(B).
- Location
- Massachusetts
As noted earlier, in your opinion the conditions of use and installation make it an auxiliary gutter. I doubt my inspectors would agree with you.
So what would they call it if a UL listed wireway was installed in the same capacity as...
- Location
- Massachusetts
If that unlikely oddity happened I am sure they would call it a wireway, just as it is listed.
Just as I am sure that you cannot speak for all inspectors. As to your opinion of the inspectors in your area, I am also left with doubts... :happyyes:
Last edited:
- Status