Soldered splices

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IMHP: This was the longest winded attempt at answering a very simple question! Unfortunately, I'll just bet it's not over yet.

Give the OP a break and somebody just tell him how much time to add for soldering and pigtailing. Gee Whizz!
 
kingpb said:
Give the OP a break and somebody just tell him how much time to add for soldering and pigtailing. Gee Whizz!
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A long time.
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BTW he did get a lot of replies on the actaul question that has long since been forgoten.
 
iwire said:
A long time.
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BTW he did get a lot of replies on the actaul question that has long since been forgoten.
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Yes, thank you all for that. I did a little experimenting this afternoon. About 20 minutes per day extra mobilization, and about 3-4 minutes per wall hole and 5 minutes per ceiling hole extra for pigtailing and soldering with a gun.
 
Would you like to get a bit quicker..... Try this. Heat at the ends, and solder from the insulated side, and use a paste flux. Remember to clean well... MAPP gas also heats really quick, but too quick and much too hot/oxidizing a flame. Also somewhat reactive to copper..... (Not sure how) Butane will work well too. All are 'cord-less'.

And if you have a good electronics supply house nearby - see if you can load up on 65-35, or 63/37 - it has better wetting effect. Especially with a dab of SP-44 flux. (Both Kester.) They have 'no-clean' flux too, but I have not tried it.

Also, remember that you are handling lead.... Not good for the brain, or other organs - another reason soldering has gone to the wayside. Don't leave any around for the kids to play with. (Is that a selling point too? Lead exposure - just like the old days.)

If you want lead-free, you'll be looking at higher temps, higher price - and harder to work with.
 
e57 said:
Would you like to get a bit quicker..... Try this. Heat at the ends, and solder from the insulated side, and use a paste flux...
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I did read your procedure in your K&T document. (Nice paper, by the way). Thanks for that.
 
e57 said:
An act of 'projection', thats one of those - uh - Psychological terms......
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Nice catch!

e57 said:
BTW you (Smart $) were reffered to as female back in post 59, maybe just to see if you were paying attention, but I guess you missed that.
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Nope! This isn't the first time Roger has interjected a discussion between iwire Bob and I, with snide and/or instigating commentary. The last time I asked him if he "had anything professional and substantive to offer the discussion?" His reply, in part, was "Absolutely, I just chose not to."

This time I "chose not to" acknowledge his post!

e57 said:
Or maybe it was just to get a sense of who you are other than a "Forum Phantom"....
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Well, you see how far that went!

e57 said:
To prove yourself to the rest of us would be more like it,...
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But really, where is it written I have to prove anything to you all. Do I get a gold star if I do??? ;) I do attempt to prove at least one thing. It's really up to each of you to determine what that is.

e57 said:
...maybe twist some wire..... Not a CAD program - WIRE. You seem to own a computer and a code book, but do you twist wires together for a living?
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Not per se. I do on rare occasions, simply from the fact that I seldom even touch solid building wire anymore. However, I do pull, splice, and terminate wire professionally (amongst other electrical construction related tasks).
 
Smart $ said:
Not per se. I do on rare occasions, simply from the fact that I seldom even touch solid building wire anymore. However, I do pull, splice, and terminate wire professionally (amongst other electrical construction related tasks).
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Well, you really could have fooled me, and it seems a few other people.

It takes one to know one, and I'm a premidonna.... Some advice though, develope a face-saving method of admitting you're wrong sometimes....
 
There are tiny little butane torches which should work well if the right procedure is used. Make the twist a little bit long, heat the end with the pencil torch while holding rosin-core solder against the body of the splice. Lead free solder is now available. Clip the excess if need be.
 
e57 said:
...Some advice though, develope a face-saving method of admitting you're wrong sometimes....
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Duly noted. Summarily rejected. I don't play that touchy-feely, kiss-xxx game. So get over it!
 
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e57, why even waste the time to type all of that up. Just tell the guy thanks, but you are not interested, too busy, etc. Forget all the jibberish covering your bases mumbo jumbo on a job like this. There are too many good paying well written jobs to take a chance on things like this.
Reply With Quote
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If it were me, I would follow this lead. I would bid the job using terms I am comfortable with installing and confident providing a warranty. I would take exception to his spec regarding this, and if he insist, I walk away.
It's an old-school method of terminating. If a spec required me to provide "built-up" 15KV terms (hand wrapped) vs a Raychem crimp/heat shrink term. I would not feel comfortable with that, and there are not too many old-timers around qualified to do these. So I would have to take exception to that requirement. Or, I would have to hunt down a person qualified and charge a whole lot more for frankly, an inferior term.
 
georgestolz said:
I didn't know having the humility to admit a mistake was kissing the other party's arse. Learn something new every day, I guess...
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This is one area where "we" differ in terms. You see, I take pride in being as correct as I humanly can be. Just admitting I'm human means I make mistakes. Admitting I am wrong about something is not a problem, as it is just a part of that premise. Therefore, I have no humility in admitting my errors or wrong-doings. However, borne out of that very same premise, I'll be damned if I admit I'm wrong when I am not... and I could really care less whether you and others think I am wrong. I have my own conscience to wrestle with, so I'm certainly not going to bear part of yours!

Thought for the day: "The difference between right and wrong is what we think." [uncertain of author]
 
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Wow - Thanks for the flashback. The first year of my apprenticeship was 1974 in the Merchandise Mart building in Chicago. My boss told to look at the solder and friction taped splices I was removing, and he said I'd never see them again. The previously retired supervising electrician had required them throughout the building until his retirement a few years earlier. He was right, I never saw them again.

On this topic though, what a red flag. Someone involved in your project is an out of date idealoge, with something to prove. I hope it ends up being at someone elses expense. I'd be careful.
 
George:

I'm another "Soldered in electrical applications other than building wiring".

Used to be certified for MilSpec soldering in aerospace electronics applications - in a different time/space continuum. I designed things for a company that wouldn't let us design anything we weren't capable of making. They had this notion that being able to do all the assembly and wiring tasks as well as all the maintenance tasks would result in us doing a better design job.
 
Mike03a3 said:
I designed things for a company that wouldn't let us design anything we weren't capable of making.
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Too bad that rule isn't applied to architecture. ;)


To whom it may concern: I've been soldering electronics since I was eight. I made my first crystal radio when I was six, but instead of a crystal or diode, I used a blue razor blade and a graphite pencil lead as the detector.
 
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Smart $ said:
...I could really care less whether you and others think I am wrong.
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That is evident.

One thing I've found, over time, is then when the big guns come down on the opposite side of an issue than I am on, I discover that I'm either being really clever or am flat out dead wrong. I'd say about 7% of the time, I'm being clever (and that's probably giving myself a little vain credit).

I suppose, since you admit error 0% of the time, then you are 93% more clever than I am. Unfortunately, the rest of us are so dim as to not see it, I guess. :D
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All things being equal, I'm glad there was a poll - it's provided an interesting insight into the varied experience of folks here, it's been a pretty cool read. :)
 
tallgirl said:
The proof that I'm correct about the point of contact being along two surfaces, one axial and the other helical, is that a pair of twisted conductors aren't free to move with respect to each other parallel to the wires themselves. This means that there must be another point of contact with some component perpendicular to the wires And that point of contact is the helical ribbon image I showed earlier.
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tall',

A perpendicular surface contact component isn't necessary to restrict longitudinal movement. Consider the contraption in the following image. It is composed of two identical plates with three pins each. There are no perpendicular surface contact components, yet the plates will not move longitudinally opposite each other without deformation occuring...

View attachment 249

Incidentally, your example image is realistically inaccurate. There should be two helicoid-ish surfaces in addition to the centered helical one. That is, there would be one helicoid-ish surface to each side of the two wires.
 
LarryFine said:
Too bad that rule isn't applied to architecture. ;)


To whom it may concern: I've been soldering electronics since I was eight. I made my first crystal radio when I was six, but instead of a crystal or diode, I used a blue razor blade and a graphite pencil lead as the detector.
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Larry, would a Gillette Red Blade work just as well?
 
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