SOOW for outlet outside?

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FionaZuppa said:
SV/SJ/S , light-duty/med-duty/heavy-duty

I cant find the UL listing that defines hard or extra hard usage. What about the "not hard" usage that some put on SV cord?

All of the cable makers say "approved for extra hard usage per NEC" or "can be used for hard usage per NEC 400"

No marking on a UL cord is a designation of "hard usage" or "extra hard usage". J means 300v, no J means 600v, period.

NEC then took those constructions of spec'd cord and added words to them. 600v is just bulkier because of the higher voltage rating.

Notice it says "per NEC" and not "per UL"
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Wow, hey thanks for explaining what I've already stated.

YOU were the one who said you don't see "extra-hard usage" in vendor descriptions.

Remember, all I wrote to AdamJamma was that "service" as relating to portable cable was not the same as service equipment, etc.. "Hard Service" is further divided to hard usage and extra-hard usage.

That's all.

You started off mocking this and have since questioned and/or disagreed with every aspect of portable cables. If there's a point to this, make it.
 
Craigv said:
Wow, hey thanks for explaining what I've already stated.

YOU were the one who said you don't see "extra-hard usage" in vendor descriptions.

Remember, all I wrote to AdamJamma was that "service" as relating to portable cable was not the same as service equipment, etc.. "Hard Service" is further divided to hard usage and extra-hard usage.

That's all.

You started off mocking this and have since questioned and/or disagreed with every aspect of portable cables. If there's a point to this, make it.
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you missed the point.

the cable makers do not, repeat, DO NOT use those words when classifying or marking the cord. They literally cannot because their is no specification or marking for 'S' cord that has a designation of "not hard usage" or "hard usage" or "extra hard usage". 'J' is not a literal specification for "hard usage", its a literal specification for "300v rated". And to your point (i think) no actual spec for light/med/heavy duty usage. That appears to be cord maker words for describing their selection, where-as the "hard usage" words found on cord maker sites are back references to the words found in NEC 400.4, etc.

A cord maker could in fact make a very thick SJO, which could outperform SO in durability, possibly called "super-duper hard usage" by NEC, yet is still only rated 'J' 300v, a "junior" cord.

SJO SO SV SVT etc specifications, as used by the cord makers, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT have "hard usage" or "extra hard usage" in them.

These usage words came from elsewhere, NEC presumably, made-up usage descriptions.

The cord makers then started to see that, hey, if i advertise our SJO cord can be used wherever the NEC says it can using the NEC words "hard usage", then i'll advertise that so folks don't confused.

because NEC is in fact quite confusing at times.

If the designations of 'S' cord had literal specifications for "hard usage" and "extra hard usages" then there would be zero need for any cord maker to advertise anything about "suitable per NEC 400.4" because you would have a direct specification on the cord saying so, AND, NEC would have no reason to use odd verbiage, it could simply call out the spec, like "spec H" because 'H' could perhaps denote a "Hard usage" application, etc.

Another example, THWN-2. If NEC says THWN-2 is good for "heavy water environment" I don't go seek out "good for heavy water environment per NEC" at any wire maker, i simply go buy THWN-2 and make sure the wire is verified as such by the markings placed on the wire.

NEC words are one thing, actual cord/cable/wire/hardware specifications are something completely different.
I am not aware of NEC creating any specifications for anything in electrical. As was pointed out, most of the spec's comes from ANSI NEMA, IEEE, and the like.

Now, I can defend NEC on the other side, allowed and not allowed ways to apply the electrical stuff. the verbiage used is sometimes very odd, or don't provide enough clarity.

I have a 240v mobile shop drill press but, it moves around maybe 3-4x a day in the shop. do i need SJ or SO cord?
 
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FionaZuppa said:
you missed the point.

the cable makers do not, repeat, DO NOT use those words when classifying or marking the cord. They literally cannot because their is no specification or marking for 'S' cord that has a designation of "not hard usage" or "hard usage" or "extra hard usage". 'J' is not a literal specification for "hard usage", its a literal specification for "300v rated". And to your point (i think) no actual spec for light/med/heavy duty usage. That appears to be cord maker words for describing their selection, where-as the "hard usage" words found on cord maker sites are back references to the words found in NEC 400.4, etc.

A cord maker could in fact make a very thick SJO, which could outperform SO in durability, possibly called "super-duper hard usage" by NEC, yet is still only rated 'J' 300v, a "junior" cord.

SJO SO SV SVT etc specifications, as used by the cord makers, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT have "hard usage" or "extra hard usage" in them.

These usage words came from elsewhere, NEC presumably, made-up usage descriptions.

The cord makers then started to see that, hey, if i advertise our SJO cord can be used wherever the NEC says it can using the NEC words "hard usage", then i'll advertise that so folks don't confused.

because NEC is in fact quite confusing at times.

If the designations of 'S' cord had literal specifications for "hard usage" and "extra hard usages" then there would be zero need for any cord maker to advertise anything about "suitable per NEC 400.4" because you would have a direct specification on the cord saying so, AND, NEC would have no reason to use odd verbiage, it could simply call out the spec, like "spec H" because 'H' could perhaps denote a "Hard usage" application, etc.

Another example, THWN-2. If NEC says THWN-2 is good for "heavy water environment" I don't go seek out "good for heavy water environment per NEC" at any wire maker, i simply go buy THWN-2 and make sure the wire is verified as such by the markings placed on the wire.

NEC words are one thing, actual cord/cable/wire/hardware specifications are something completely different.
I am not aware of NEC creating any specifications for anything in electrical. As was pointed out, most of the spec's comes from ANSI NEMA, IEEE, and the like.

Now, I can defend NEC on the other side, allowed and not allowed ways to apply the electrical stuff. the verbiage used is sometimes very odd, or don't provide enough clarity.

I have a 240v mobile shop drill press but, it moves around maybe 3-4x a day in the shop. do i need SJ or SO cord?
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Two days ago you wrote as if you didn't even know the term "extra-hard usage". Now you're presuming to teach me the history of portable cable rating and terminology.

Let's keep the deflection and obfuscation to a minimum: I explained to AddamJamm that "service" when applied to portable cords was not in the context of service entrance cable. You jumped on my use of "extra-hard use" as if it was some foreign terminology, or as you put it, some made up words. When another member directed you to Table 400, and the fact that the term is used by NEC, you began this Alice in Wonderland journey into questioning listing agencies, design criteria and various and sundry aspects of the NEC's verbiage.

The bottom line is that extra-hard usage IS a phrase used, often, by NEC. When a Code article states hard usage or extra-hard shall be used, it's a simple matter to refer to Table 400.4, find a cable that fits the general use category, and then narrow it down to a specific cable type. This allows us to either spec a cable for a job or check a cable in use to see if it should meet code requirements. In every instance an SO cord will be extra-hard usage and a 600v rating. In every instance an SJ cord will be hard usage and 300v rating.

And that's all, folks.
 
I just use soow outside under a covered patio for a blower. It blows air down to keep bugs out. I just plugged it in to a receptacle that I put high on deck, cord can’t be damaged and it gives the flexibility if I need to do repairs. I can just un-plug and take unit down.
 
I don't believe the code requires (extra) hard usage cord to be listed as such for GP use. I think it uses the word approved. Note that table 400.4 designates if a cord is "not hard usage", "hard usage" or "extra hard usage".

The only place I recall a cord being required to be listed as extra hard usage is in classified areas.
 
guschash said:
I just use soow outside under a covered patio for a blower. It blows air down to keep bugs out. I just plugged it in to a receptacle that I put high on deck, cord can’t be damaged and it gives the flexibility if I need to do repairs. I can just un-plug and take unit down.
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That may be a situation where flexible cord is allowed. What it can't be used for in that application is the supply to the receptacle.
 
petersonra said:
IMO it is perfectly safe but not to code.
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safe? not for 24x7 outside exposure it's not. The rubber jacket will eventually degrade with constant exposure to UV, temp swings (120+F down to below freezing), dry and wet weather.

how long it takes to fail i dunno. I have seen those big shipping container sized CAT portable gens with lots of S cord coming out and the thing is parked there for months, but it eventually goes away.
 
petersonra said:
I don't believe the code requires (extra) hard usage cord to be listed as such for GP use. I think it uses the word approved. Note that table 400.4 designates if a cord is "not hard usage", "hard usage" or "extra hard usage".

The only place I recall a cord being required to be listed as extra hard usage is in classified areas.
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There are several uses for carnivals, etc. and in theatrical/music stages that require it.
 
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