Southwire MC Cable

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electrofelon said:
Im not trying to get in a pissing match or put you down, but honestly the first thing that comes to mind when I hear this broad stroking brush of always go above code is lack of experience. Imo part of being a good electrician is knowing what is adaquate and sufficient, what is not, and what is overkill. If I were to hire a professional, I don't want them spending my money on things I don't need. I don't need more work, I am happy to talk a client out of something stupid like a 400 amp resi service.
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I agree again. I see so much money and materials wasted in the name Good Craftsmanship or whatever. It's sad and frustrating.

Now don't get me wrong, if somebody wants to spend some money I'll do what I can to help. We got a guy that wants a 400A service on his new hobby shop and he's getting one, but he had his choices laid out for him and explained why he didn't need one.
 
electrofelon said:
Its in 220 that receptacles in commercial are calculated at 180 VA per yoke. That works out to 13 per 20 amp circuit. There is some debate about whether this applies to installation or is just required for calc purposes.
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That's what I thought you were referring to. To me, there is no debate. An unused receptacle uses no current, obviously.

That is definitely not an installation limit. It would be too easy for specifics like that to be in the code if that were the intent.
 
electrofelon said:
Im not trying to get in a pissing match or put you down, but honestly the first thing that comes to mind when I hear this broad stroking brush of always go above code is lack of experience. Imo part of being a good electrician is knowing what is adaquate and sufficient, what is not, and what is overkill. If I were to hire a professional, I don't want them spending my money on things I don't need. I don't need more work, I am happy to talk a client out of something stupid like a 400 amp resi service.
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I never said I always went above NEC. For this thread I said I installed the red insulator on MC. And on my jobs every JW and apprentice installed the insulator. And not just jobs I was running, it was shop policy. Why? Because in the long run it paid for itself in fewer related job callbacks. When I retired the shop employed over 125 workers in the field. If fact I'm not aware of any descent sized shop that didn't require the red insulator to be used when installing MC cable. Of course I only worked commercial/industrial.

but honestly the first thing that comes to mind when I hear this broad stroking brush of always go above code is lack of experience.
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Again your words, not mine. Who is using a broad brush?

I'll just say I worked in the trade for 40+ years before I retired. 99% of the time I ran work. The last 30 years of the 40+ years with the same contractor.

If the job was a competitive bid, then bottom line was to make the man money. If you make the man money you never have to worry about sitting on the bench. I followed the spec book and electrical drawings. You hope the EE did his job. If it was a regular customer and the job was design build, I designed and laid out the project with the customer in mind. That's how you keep them customers, as well create new ones.

Jim
 
LarryFine said:
That's what I thought you were referring to. To me, there is no debate. An unused receptacle uses no current, obviously.

That is definitely not an installation limit. It would be too easy for specifics like that to be in the code if that were the intent.
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NEC Questions and Answers Based on the 2005 NEC I

 By Mike Holt, for EC&M Magazine



Q1 What is the maximum number of 15 or 20A, 125V receptacle outlets permitted on a 20A, 120V general-purpose branch circuit in a commercial occupancy?

A1 For commercial occupancies, the NEC requires each receptacle outlet to be calculated at 180 VA [220.14(I)]. Therefore, the maximum number on a 20A circuit would be 13.
Circuit VA = Volts x Amperes
Circuit VA = 120V x 20A
Circuit VA = 2,400 VA
Number of Receptacles = 2,400 VA/180 VA
Number of Receptacles = 13
Note: According to the NEC Handbook, published by the NFPA, general-purpose receptacles aren't considered a continuous load.


​
Q2 What is the maximum number of 15 or 20A, 125V receptacle and lighting outlets permitted on a 15A, 120V general-purpose branch circuit in a dwelling unit?

A2 The NEC doesn't limit the number of receptacle and lighting outlets on a general-purpose branch circuit in a dwelling unit. See the NFPA's NEC Handbook for more information.
Although there's no limit on the number of lighting and/or receptacle outlets on dwelling general-purpose branch circuits, the NEC does require a minimum number of circuits to be installed for general-purpose receptacles and lighting outlets [210.11(A)]. In addition, the receptacle and lighting loads must be evenly distributed among the required circuits [210.11(B).
Caution: Not likely, but there might be a local electrical requirement that limits the number of receptacles and lighting outlets on a general-purpose branch circuit.
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https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsar...-Answers-Based-on-the-2005-NEC-I~20050223.php

See NEC 2014 220.14 (I)(J) (1) & (2)
 
jumper said:
He is prolly busy.

But you are here and so....I am asking you.:)
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2014 NEC
210.2 Other Articles for specific-purpose branch circuits.
Branch circuits shall comply with this article and also applicable provisions of other articles of this code.
 
Jamesco said:
Q1 What is the maximum number of 15 or 20A, 125V receptacle outlets permitted on a 20A, 120V general-purpose branch circuit in a commercial occupancy?

A1 For commercial occupancies, the NEC requires each receptacle outlet to be calculated at 180 VA [220.14(I)]. Therefore, the maximum number on a 20A circuit would be 13.Circuit VA = Volts x Amperes
Circuit VA = 120V x 20A
Circuit VA = 2,400 VA
Number of Receptacles = 2,400 VA/180 VA
Number of Receptacles = 13
Note: According to the NEC Handbook, published by the NFPA, general-purpose receptacles aren't considered a continuous load.
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"To be calculated" is for determining minimum allowances. Yes, the math works out to 13 receptacles on a 20-amp circuit, but nothing says that we must use that math when actually laying out circuits. I would wire 20 receptacles on one circuit if the usage showed that only one load would be used at a time, but nowhere near 13 if the usage showed that multiple loads would be in use simultaneously.

To define the calculated 180VA load allowance for 13 receptacles on a 20-amp circuit as an absolute, one could argue that 13 receptacles should be permitted on every 20-amp circuit, regardless of the actual usage. We know that would not suffice for most commercial installations.
 
jumper said:
Not to be a complete jerk here, but I absolutely despise the use of that term what so ever in casual use or jest.:rant:

I know what you meant but using that term is reserved for WWII only IMO.

I get quite testy about this.
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Sorry, I was not trying to make light of anything that happened in WWII. I didn't make up the term "Code Nazi", the local electricians did. I am sure that when they did, they meant to use the following definition:

(slang, usually pejorative, sometimes offensive, see usage notes below) One who imposes one’s views on others; one who is considered unfairly oppressive or needlessly strict. (also frequently uncapitalised: nazi)She’s a total grammar Nazi.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi
 
Here Jim,

This is part of a CMP statement on a ROP, lt actually backs up your opinion:

Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The material proposed is not appropriate for a FPN since it contains an interpretation. In addition, the submitter is incorrect in that 220.14(I) does limit the number of receptacles on a branch circuit for applications other than dwelling units covered in 220.14(J) and banks and office buildings covered in 220.14(K).
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
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The problem with is that this is not mandated code. The statement and their opinion is not actually what is written. They just think it does.:)
 
K8MHZ said:
Sorry, I was not trying to make light of anything that happened in WWII.
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I totally know what you meant and that you were not being flippant on the subject.

It is just that I am way too sensitive to how it is used in casual conversation.

I get more upset than I should, but I am a historian at heart.

So, do not take my over blown out burst to heart.

I know you are a good man Charlie Brown.
 
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