Splitting packaged spa wiring components

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JFletcher said:
See 680.42 ( 'must comply with parts I and II of this article') (2008 NEC ref, may have changed in the 14 edition), which kicks you back to 680.12. ......
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Ok....,, yeh totally missed that.

I'll drop a NF disco at the pool and spa pack in the pit.


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Guys I've made a huge mistake .....

So every spa I've hooked up in the past had a disconnect set beside it by default just by the way we ran the circuit. This swim spa thing kinda threw me for a loop as I haven't seen this before where it's recessed in the pit . I thought all of the equipment would only be accessible from within the pit; it was delivered today, and that is not the case. It sits down in that pit, but also sits above it by about 30" or so. That's where the equipment connections are behind a panel. The manufacturer had sent me a drawing of where to stub conduits up below, and I ran them from the panel straight up under this thing.

So there are no connections underneath.

Now I've screwed myself on having this accessible disconnect because they also poured all the concrete today where I could've ran conduit to the outer wall and set disconnects .

I'm thinking about calling the inspector out and seeing how he would feel about me installing contactors on both circuits and adding a toggle switch on the wall nearby to open the circuits. I would get a WP switch cover engraved that says spa disconnect.

Opinions? Only other option is to core the block wall on both sides and try to get conduit forced through the compacted fill between the walls. Man I screwed up.




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brantmacga said:
Guys I've made a huge mistake .....

So every spa I've hooked up in the past had a disconnect set beside it by default just by the way we ran the circuit. This swim spa thing kinda threw me for a loop as I haven't seen this before where it's recessed in the pit . I thought all of the equipment would only be accessible from within the pit; it was delivered today, and that is not the case. It sits down in that pit, but also sits above it by about 30" or so. That's where the equipment connections are behind a panel. The manufacturer had sent me a drawing of where to stub conduits up below, and I ran them from the panel straight up under this thing.

So there are no connections underneath.

Now I've screwed myself on having this accessible disconnect because they also poured all the concrete today where I could've ran conduit to the outer wall and set disconnects .

I'm thinking about calling the inspector out and seeing how he would feel about me installing contactors on both circuits and adding a toggle switch on the wall nearby to open the circuits. I would get a WP switch cover engraved that says spa disconnect.

Opinions? Only other option is to core the block wall on both sides and try to get conduit forced through the compacted fill between the walls. Man I screwed up.
Click to expand...

The disco has to be at least 5' from water's edge. I thought that disco had to be within 25', but it just has to be LoS (Line of Sight) - it can be 50 or 80' away.

Is it all concrete from the pit to the house? If not, can you dig up the yard somewhere convenient to get to your conduit, cut it, and put a 90* sweep and a few feet of conduit up on each end to a disco mounted on a 4 x 4" pole? Or mount it to the house/garage?

Crude drawing of what I'm talking about:

Spa.jpg
 
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JFletcher said:
Is it all concrete from the pit to the house?
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It is. I've got EMT going through the attic, hit a trough in the attic and then PVC down the wall and out the slab.

Looking at maybe intercepting there and running pipe to exterior wall that is within site of this spa.



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brantmacga said:
It is. I've got EMT going through the attic, hit a trough in the attic and then PVC down the wall and out the slab.

Looking at maybe intercepting there and running pipe to exterior wall that is within site of this spa.
Click to expand...

Yeah, on the side of the house would be better than having to take a concrete saw to their freshly-poured patio or deck, even if you have to 90 around a corner and back.

Or, you could bust out the concrete block and use a bulb auger w/ extension to get under the poured concrete on the far side of the spa:

https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Butler-...g_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5922AWDZG61RX48SK1WW
 
Splitting packaged spa wiring components

Talked to inspector; he would allow push button shut-off with shunt trip breakers, but not a switch connected to contactors. Square D doesn't make GFI shunt trip breakers, and setting another panel doesn't seem like a good option. Looks like I'll be routing conduit down the wall outside the house.


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I don't agree with shunt trip breaker idea. A service disconnect should work with out requiring the circuit being energized. Its probably not likely to happen but what if someone decides to service the spa and either the feeder breaker is off or the power is off. They push the button to trip the shunt trip and think its safe but it doesn't do any thing because the circuit is dead. While servicing the unit the power comes back on so the spa is now energized.
 
Yeh..... Going back next week to rework the pipe and get disconnects on the building. I have a trough in the attic where it transitions to PVC to go down the wall and out the slab, so I can branch out of there and take it to an exterior wall.


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Dennis Alwon said:
I don't understand -- you have to have a place to add a disconnect by the spa. Install a home depot box there. otherwise and a small sub panel from the main and put a gfci there.

BTW-- is this the sq.d homeline? Because sq.d does make a dp 60 gfci

https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-QO260GFICP-Two-Pole/dp/B00DW474GE


81YDhNNLPsL._SL1500_.jpg
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Information given on that Amazon page doesn't correspond to what Square D has in their catalogs for same product number.

According to their catalog the QO260GFI is only for 2 wire loads and contains no neutral connections. The image about has to be edited as well. They have no 60 amp three wire GFCI device, yet Amazon apparently does have one:(

It can't be an EPD class device either because those also only are two wire in the 60 amp version according to Square D catalog.
 
kwired said:
The image about has to be edited as well. They have no 60 amp three wire GFCI device, yet Amazon apparently does have one:( .
Click to expand...

Doesn't look edited to me ....: the QO260GFI still has a neutral pigtail, just no provisions for connecting a neutral to the breaker.


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JFletcher said:
The disco has to be at least 5' from water's edge. I thought that disco had to be within 25', but it just has to be LoS (Line of Sight) - it can be 50 or 80' away.
Click to expand...


I disagree.... The disconnect cannot be more than 50'

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, fountain, or hot tub unless separated from the open
water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a
1.5 m (5 ft) reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is
to be measured from the water’s edge along the shortest
path required to reach the disconnect.
Click to expand...

In Sight From (Within Sight From, Within Sight).
Where this Code specifies that one equipment shall be “in
sight from,” “within sight from,” or “within sight of,” and so
forth, another equipment, the specified equipment is to be visible
and not more than 15 m (50 ft) distant from the other.
Click to expand...
 
brantmacga said:
Doesn't look edited to me ....: the QO260GFI still has a neutral pigtail, just no provisions for connecting a neutral to the breaker.


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Click to expand...
Can't say I have ever used one, but kind of makes some sense since less components are needed to be stocked for assembly- as in they probably use the same 120 volt logic components as they do in other GFCI breakers, this would mean you do need a supply neutral even though there is no load neutral for it to work correctly though.
 
JFletcher said:
Thanks for the correction. Guess I knew there was a distance limit at some point, thought it 25' (probably got that confused with the receptacle limit to the spa), couldnt find it in 680, then just thought 'line of sight is good, no limit'.
Click to expand...

Dennis posted the definition of "line of sight", any time you see "line of sight", it's 50' max.
 
well we got the disconnects piped in, thanks for saving me on that.

7f5b0d52ad58ebf7c7136ef184d2f1e1.jpg



And here's the tub.

d39ba343d4ffa8d7d29f87348df0ca3b.jpg



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Where did you find those escutcheon plates for the conduit? Also, are you bringing them around the corner for the disco?

Nice swim spa; what are those going for, $15-18k or so?

eta: 4 conductors but no neutrals???
 
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