Tesla PwrWall/Gateway shutdowns

[caribconsult]

Good news so far

Good news so far

To all who've contributed here:

We are now about a month into the recent visits by installer techs, Tesla engineers, etc, as previously posted, and the system is absolutely behaving itself. Not a burp in the last month. This is so encouraging. The Enphase Envoy system is a very valuable asset in a solar system...you can zero in on any panel/inverter in the array, see its performanceminute by minute and spot a bad one quickly, observe the frequency shifts that control the array and generally keep an eye on the panel array. It has nothing to do with the Tesla except lower the panel output to the house load once the battery is full.They threw that in as part of the solution. I don't know as it was, tell the truth. I lean towards the 'Tesla rebooted it thinking you were on the grid' explanation.

In any event, it looks like things have stabilized. I set the probationary period as until Labor Day, not that far away. Hopefully it will pass, I can pay the installer, and everybody goes home happy. The biggest thanks here goes to Kris K, Caribbean accounts manager for Tesla. After I spoke with him, things started to happen.

 

[caribconsult]

Hurrcane warnings

Hurrcane warnings

Sound like the final chapter to this story has been written. Now, are you ready for this year's hurricane season? Battery and inverter won't help if the panels blow away.

Don't anybody here get upset with this poor guy who's probably never been here.

As if we don't know hurricane season is on us? We watch the satellite weather almost daily and if something is kicking up out there, for sure one of our friends will call this to our attention if we didn't already know it. Prepared? That's a word with variable meanings. We were/are prepared as we can get. If another Maria was coming we'd likely take down the panels and use the generator. We have aluminum storm shutters, known as "tormenteras" for every glass window and door in the house. We have more than a weeks worth of gasoline on hand for the gen if it gets to that. We have a water reserve system with 2100 gallons of drinking water, a pump and pressure tank that take over automatically if the municipal water goes off. Post Maria, we were extremely careful with water usage, gathering rainwater from the roof to flush toilets, but nevertheless we chewed through about half our water reserve by the time the muni water came back. That was a gift from god.

So yes, I would say we are pretty well prepared. It allows you to survive a disaster like we had but trust me, it's not fun. Many left the island afterwards, things were so tough here, still are in some remote areas in the mountains. And we don't need any further reminders, thank you.

 

[Adamjamma]

Yeah, people get scared about the hurricanes but batten the windows, make sure the tanks are full and if needed, cover the panels through the storm like the windows... not a big problem and the reason I have more batteries than needed and a multiple zone system.. would probably need five Tesla’s if I used them... but they were not an option, they do look so good though

 

[bullheimer]

well i have lived there, (PR) all be it shortly and 20 years ago. you are lucky to have power, and even luckier in my book to have this power wall system!! i have been on Tesla's so-called waiting list to become a Powerwall installer for the last two years, ever since i first heard of this product, and, although i am from Reno, and have friends there who i ask about this factory that is supposedly making powerwall batteries, and i live in Washington State, I have not received ONE SINGLE EMAIL FROM TESLA regarding the powerwall being online, for sale, in use, ANYTHING, other than about a year ago they sent me something on some other product that i couldnt care less about, like their cars

reading you post was the FIRST i've heard that this product is out there somewhere, and OUT THERE is no kidding when i see that you are in Puerto Rico! But thanks to you my friend, i am going to make sure i have nothing to do with this product. It sounds like i would get crappy tech support, and would have to take a mountain of classes to get these things installed correctly, just in time, probably , for the world to run out of Lithium or something. Next time you go to the Federal Building/Post Office, you can examine some of my handiwork. Preferably you won't be in the jail portion of the building! and... good luck with the 'canes.

 

[ggunn]

Don't anybody here get upset with this poor guy who's probably never been here.

As if we don't know hurricane season is on us? We watch the satellite weather almost daily and if something is kicking up out there, for sure one of our friends will call this to our attention if we didn't already know it. Prepared? That's a word with variable meanings. We were/are prepared as we can get. If another Maria was coming we'd likely take down the panels and use the generator. We have aluminum storm shutters, known as "tormenteras" for every glass window and door in the house. We have more than a weeks worth of gasoline on hand for the gen if it gets to that. We have a water reserve system with 2100 gallons of drinking water, a pump and pressure tank that take over automatically if the municipal water goes off. Post Maria, we were extremely careful with water usage, gathering rainwater from the roof to flush toilets, but nevertheless we chewed through about half our water reserve by the time the muni water came back. That was a gift from god.

So yes, I would say we are pretty well prepared. It allows you to survive a disaster like we had but trust me, it's not fun. Many left the island afterwards, things were so tough here, still are in some remote areas in the mountains. And we don't need any further reminders, thank you.

The good news is that although hurricanes are typically very large storms, the swath of devastation cut by the eyewall winds is pretty narrow, comparatively speaking. PR "won" the lottery with Hurricane Maria.

 

[ggunn]

duplicate deleted

 

[caribconsult]

Hurricane destruction

Hurricane destruction

The good news is that although hurricanes are typically very large storms, the swath of devastation cut by the eyewall winds is pretty narrow, comparatively speaking. PR "won" the lottery with Hurricane Maria.

Is that a fact? We won the "María lottery?" No one here seems to know that. Where do you get your info from, may I ask? Have you been here to see just how trashed our poor island got? The eyewall passed just east of us but we had 140+mph winds that tore roofs off many homes and just flattened others. At least 20 fallen trees blocked our access to the main road, which itself was blocked by countless more fallen trees and cables. A 10 minute drive to the market became an all-day challenge to find open roads. And when you got there, they might have NOTHING.

Certain areas got hit a little harder and some escaped with minimal damage, but everyone felt the effects, everyone waited on all sorts of lines for gas and other supplies for 4 hours, sometimes not getting anything, very little/no food in stores. Ice in high demand but minimally available. The whole food/fuel delivery system broke down because all communications systems were down, and many main roads were blocked/destroyed or otherwise impassable. No phones, cell or otherwise, no TV (we had satellite so we did have TV), one AM station on the air, no internet , there was no public water supply everywhere for quite a while until some of the municipal water systems began to work again, but we were gathering rainwater from the roof to flush toilets, Our power returned 4 months and 4 days after the storm, so we used our generator 4-5 hours in the AM and another 5-6 hours at night EVERY day. That's about $80/wk just for gen fuel, not to mention the noise. And there's lots more...stores and pharmacies closed, doctor's offices closed (I was in the middle of an eye procedure and the doctor left the island, no referral or forwarding to another doc. It took 3 month to locate another ophthalmologist that took my insurance, but missing 3 months of treatment really set me back. Another gift from Maria-I may wind up with a degraded left eye.)

All banks were closed, ATM machines not working and everything was in cash because no credit card systems were alive. Lines everywhere for everything. And we haven't even discussed the approximately 4,000 who died here, many because they couldn't get vital medicines, or electricity for their medical device, or the fridge to store their medicine. These facts are way under-reported in the Stateside media. And there are still pockets of people up in the remote areas of the mountains. They USED to have electricity but still don't now. And all the off-island crews have left. And FEMA is elusive, and basically gone.

And it was still raining for days after the storm left. Big fun. You should try waiting with 4-5gal gas cans in the rain for 4 hours before you tell us how we won the lottery. I don't see how it could have gotten much worse...this was one of the strongest storms in history. Pray you never experience this, but please lay off the lectures about how we won, somehow. It doesn't go over very well here.

 

[gadfly56]

Is that a fact? We won the "María lottery?" No one here seems to know that. Where do you get your info from, may I ask? Have you been here to see just how trashed our poor island got? The eyewall passed just east of us but we had 140+mph winds that tore roofs off many homes and just flattened others. At least 20 fallen trees blocked our access to the main road, which itself was blocked by countless more fallen trees and cables. A 10 minute drive to the market became an all-day challenge to find open roads. And when you got there, they might have NOTHING.

Certain areas got hit a little harder and some escaped with minimal damage, but everyone felt the effects, everyone waited on all sorts of lines for gas and other supplies for 4 hours, sometimes not getting anything, very little/no food in stores. Ice in high demand but minimally available. The whole food/fuel delivery system broke down because all communications systems were down, and many main roads were blocked/destroyed or otherwise impassable. No phones, cell or otherwise, no TV (we had satellite so we did have TV), one AM station on the air, no internet , there was no public water supply everywhere for quite a while until some of the municipal water systems began to work again, but we were gathering rainwater from the roof to flush toilets, Our power returned 4 months and 4 days after the storm, so we used our generator 4-5 hours in the AM and another 5-6 hours at night EVERY day. That's about $80/wk just for gen fuel, not to mention the noise. And there's lots more...stores and pharmacies closed, doctor's offices closed (I was in the middle of an eye procedure and the doctor left the island, no referral or forwarding to another doc. It took 3 month to locate another ophthalmologist that took my insurance, but missing 3 months of treatment really set me back. Another gift from Maria-I may wind up with a degraded left eye.)

All banks were closed, ATM machines not working and everything was in cash because no credit card systems were alive. Lines everywhere for everything. And we haven't even discussed the approximately 4,000 who died here, many because they couldn't get vital medicines, or electricity for their medical device, or the fridge to store their medicine. These facts are way under-reported in the Stateside media. And there are still pockets of people up in the remote areas of the mountains. They USED to have electricity but still don't now. And all the off-island crews have left. And FEMA is elusive, and basically gone.

And it was still raining for days after the storm left. Big fun. You should try waiting with 4-5gal gas cans in the rain for 4 hours before you tell us how we won the lottery. I don't see how it could have gotten much worse...this was one of the strongest storms in history. Pray you never experience this, but please lay off the lectures about how we won, somehow. It doesn't go over very well here.

I think ggunn meant you won the "most bad things that could possibly happen" lottery, not the "everything went swell" lottery.

For myself, my comments regarding the panels and hurricanes was prompted by the fly-over photos of some of the solar farms where basically every panel was trashed. Have you developed a quick mount/dismount system to get the panels down in anticipation of a storm? What do you do to ensure that there is still a roof for the array to go back onto after the storm passes?

 

[caribconsult]

I'm assuming you only have one Powerwall unit. So here is one thing that could happen: If you are running off-grid with a load larger than the 5kW output of the Powerwall, and the battery is charging and then reaches full charge, then the Powerwall will knock the solar system offline (by small frequency shifting, I believe), and suddenly you will not have enough power for the load and the Powerwall would also have to shut down. This is a shortcoming of the Tesla product, and it has to be this way because the their design has no way to throttle the solar output when the battery can't absorb it See my note later in this thread about the Enphase Envoy. That's exactly what it does. Also, how we resolved this problem For this reason you really can't expect to run loads greater than the Powerwall nameplate output when off grid, regardless of how much solar you have That was never a problem. Now if you also have the grid at those times, then the grid can absorb whatever excess you have No, we don't have 'net metering and don't want it. and nothing needs to shutdown. So that could have happened in your description of this one event..

Thanks for you initial input and I hope this fills you in on some things, especially the Enphase Envoy. They're on line and they can tell you what inverters work right with their stuff. Sounds like you could use one. It also lets you keep a close eye on each panel/inverter and bad ones can be spotted immediately.

 

[caribconsult]

I think ggunn meant you won the "most bad things that could possibly happen" lottery, not the "everything went swell" lottery.

For myself, my comments regarding the panels and hurricanes was prompted by the fly-over photos of some of the solar farms where basically every panel was trashed. Have you developed a quick mount/dismount system to get the panels down in anticipation of a storm? What do you do to ensure that there is still a roof for the array to go back onto after the storm passes?

Good questions. Let me answer them one at a time. Taking down the panels is definitely an option, we need to see how each on connects to the mounted inverter, and they it's 4 small bolts and washers and off come the panels. Now we have taak of lowering them floors to the protected area. I'm thinking some arrangement of cargo slings and ropes to lower perhaps 4 at a time. I need to get a handle on the panel weight as well. Our roof is poured concrete from a time when the right sand was used in such construction, so our house is pretty sturdy and I don't think we are in danger of fallen trees.

Another question have is what to use to just protect the panels in place during a lesser storm, to keep flying coconuts and tree branches from smashing the panels. What to use ? 3/8 marine plywood? Some PVC setup? Aluminum storm shutters like we use on windows? Any suggestions?

 

[gadfly56]

Good questions. Let me answer them one at a time. Taking down the panels is definitely an option, we need to see how each on connects to the mounted inverter, and they it's 4 small bolts and washers and off come the panels. Now we have taak of lowering them floors to the protected area. I'm thinking some arrangement of cargo slings and ropes to lower perhaps 4 at a time. I need to get a handle on the panel weight as well. Our roof is poured concrete from a time when the right sand was used in such construction, so our house is pretty sturdy and I don't think we are in danger of fallen trees.

Another question have is what to use to just protect the panels in place during a lesser storm, to keep flying coconuts and tree branches from smashing the panels. What to use ? 3/8 marine plywood? Some PVC setup? Aluminum storm shutters like we use on windows? Any suggestions?

I have some thoughts on panel protection. After work I'll sketch something up and post it. Basically, it's a big box open at the front with dividers so each panel slides into it's own little cubby. What are the panel overall dimensions?

 

[ggunn]

Is that a fact? We won the "María lottery?" No one here seems to know that. Where do you get your info from, may I ask? Have you been here to see just how trashed our poor island got? The eyewall passed just east of us but we had 140+mph winds that tore roofs off many homes and just flattened others. At least 20 fallen trees blocked our access to the main road, which itself was blocked by countless more fallen trees and cables. A 10 minute drive to the market became an all-day challenge to find open roads. And when you got there, they might have NOTHING.

Certain areas got hit a little harder and some escaped with minimal damage, but everyone felt the effects, everyone waited on all sorts of lines for gas and other supplies for 4 hours, sometimes not getting anything, very little/no food in stores. Ice in high demand but minimally available. The whole food/fuel delivery system broke down because all communications systems were down, and many main roads were blocked/destroyed or otherwise impassable. No phones, cell or otherwise, no TV (we had satellite so we did have TV), one AM station on the air, no internet , there was no public water supply everywhere for quite a while until some of the municipal water systems began to work again, but we were gathering rainwater from the roof to flush toilets, Our power returned 4 months and 4 days after the storm, so we used our generator 4-5 hours in the AM and another 5-6 hours at night EVERY day. That's about $80/wk just for gen fuel, not to mention the noise. And there's lots more...stores and pharmacies closed, doctor's offices closed (I was in the middle of an eye procedure and the doctor left the island, no referral or forwarding to another doc. It took 3 month to locate another ophthalmologist that took my insurance, but missing 3 months of treatment really set me back. Another gift from Maria-I may wind up with a degraded left eye.)

All banks were closed, ATM machines not working and everything was in cash because no credit card systems were alive. Lines everywhere for everything. And we haven't even discussed the approximately 4,000 who died here, many because they couldn't get vital medicines, or electricity for their medical device, or the fridge to store their medicine. These facts are way under-reported in the Stateside media. And there are still pockets of people up in the remote areas of the mountains. They USED to have electricity but still don't now. And all the off-island crews have left. And FEMA is elusive, and basically gone.

And it was still raining for days after the storm left. Big fun. You should try waiting with 4-5gal gas cans in the rain for 4 hours before you tell us how we won the lottery. I don't see how it could have gotten much worse...this was one of the strongest storms in history. Pray you never experience this, but please lay off the lectures about how we won, somehow. It doesn't go over very well here.

You didn't get that I was speaking ironically, even with the quotes around "won"? I grew up in southwest Louisiana and I am old enough to remember Hurricane Audry in 1957. My sister lives in Slidell (Hurricane Katrina), my mom lives in Lake Charles (Hurricane Rita), my best bud lives in Houston (Hurricanes Ike and Harvey, and TS Allison), and I have friends who live on Cozumel (Hurricanes Gilbert and Wilma). I know about hurricanes.

When I said that PR "won" the lottery I certainly didn't mean it was anything good. My point was that the swath of the most destructive wind events associated with a typical hurricane is pretty small compared to the total size of the storm (when Katrina came ashore on the Louisiana - Mississippi border the wind swath was only 20-30 miles wide), and PR was "lucky" (meaning unlucky) enough to take a direct hit from the winds right around the eyewall of Maria.

I apologize if I didn't make it clear that I meant pretty much the opposite of how you took it.

 

[jaggedben]

Ggunn meant the lottery in the Shirley Jackson story.

 

[caribconsult]

I have some thoughts on panel protection. After work I'll sketch something up and post it. Basically, it's a big box open at the front with dividers so each panel slides into it's own little cubby. What are the panel overall dimensions?

Here's two shots of our array on the roof. You can see how they sit in a sort of well surrounded by the roof line extending beyond the building. They stick up perhaps 5" above the roof line.

View attachment 20856 View attachment 20857

So I have two thoughts: if a cat 3 or less is coming, they stay on the roof but some shock protection against flying coconuts and tree branches would be good. Styrofoam, cut to size and duct taped to the the panel? Complete wrap-around? Some other way?
If the storm is 4-5, then they should come down. I have yet to figure out how to deal with the quick disconnects to the inverter (each panel has 2) but I know who to ask. After that, it's just two small hex bolts, probably 10-13mm or so, on each side, adjacent panels are siamesed with the same bolt and clip. Lowering them down would involve some sort of sling and rope arrangement, maybe 4 panels at a time, and they have to come down 2 floors to the secured dry area, but doing nothing to prevent damaging the array is not a good idea.

Your thoughts on this? I can only upload two shots at a time so if you'd like to see more detail, just say so and I'll post some more.

Thanks again for your response.

Jeff

 

[caribconsult]

You didn't get that I was speaking ironically, even with the quotes around "won"? I grew up in southwest Louisiana.....
I apologize if I didn't make it clear that I meant pretty much the opposite of how you took it.

Nope, missed the irony completely, and I am sorry for that. Had you mentioned any of your LA history I think I would have gotten the message, but please understand that after María, many of us were bombarded by well-meaning but uninformed stuff from statesiders about who we are, and how we should do things, etc. Some of us got a little weary of that. No doubt you hear somewhat similar criticisms in Louisiana...I spent almost 10 years in NOLA and it's not all that different from here in terms of political ineptness and corruption.

Anyhow, no blood, no foul, sorry for misinterpreting your remarks.

Jeff

 

[caribconsult]

I have some thoughts on panel protection. After work I'll sketch something up and post it. Basically, it's a big box open at the front with dividers so each panel slides into it's own little cubby. What are the panel overall dimensions?

I neglected to mention this in the previous reply: the panels (21count) are 64.5" tall x 39" wide. No idea with the weight is. They are rated at 250w each.

 

[gadfly56]

I neglected to mention this in the previous reply: the panels (21count) are 64.5" tall x 39" wide. No idea with the weight is. They are rated at 250w each.

When dismounted, what is the overall depth? I'd guess 4-5"...

 

[ggunn]

Nope, missed the irony completely, and I am sorry for that. Had you mentioned any of your LA history I think I would have gotten the message, but please understand that after María, many of us were bombarded by well-meaning but uninformed stuff from statesiders about who we are, and how we should do things, etc. Some of us got a little weary of that. No doubt you hear somewhat similar criticisms in Louisiana...I spent almost 10 years in NOLA and it's not all that different from here in terms of political ineptness and corruption.

Anyhow, no blood, no foul, sorry for misinterpreting your remarks.

Jeff

We're cool. And yeah, although I'd left Louisiana before Katrina, I know what you mean. The Corps of Engineers and the Levee Board will most likely never be held accountable for their contribution to what went on in the Lower 9th in the days following the storm.

On a lighter note, here's a link to an article about something the company I work for has done in Haiti. I didn't go down there for the installation but I worked on the design:
https://www.mystatesman.com/busines...lives-haitian-orphans/NhJIB2n6YYXLn5v65kz1CN/

 

[jaggedben]

Here's two shots of our array on the roof. You can see how they sit in a sort of well surrounded by the roof line extending beyond the building. They stick up perhaps 5" above the roof line.

View attachment 20856 View attachment 20857

So I have two thoughts: if a cat 3 or less is coming, they stay on the roof but some shock protection against flying coconuts and tree branches would be good. Styrofoam, cut to size and duct taped to the the panel? Complete wrap-around? Some other way?
If the storm is 4-5, then they should come down. I have yet to figure out how to deal with the quick disconnects to the inverter (each panel has 2) but I know who to ask. After that, it's just two small hex bolts, probably 10-13mm or so, on each side, adjacent panels are siamesed with the same bolt and clip. Lowering them down would involve some sort of sling and rope arrangement, maybe 4 panels at a time, and they have to come down 2 floors to the secured dry area, but doing nothing to prevent damaging the array is not a good idea.

Your thoughts on this? I can only upload two shots at a time so if you'd like to see more detail, just say so and I'll post some more.

Thanks again for your response.

Jeff

If I installed in that area, I'd be punctilious about the design wind speeds on my installs. If I were you, I'd ask the installer to provide that to me, along with detailed info on how they arrived at the number and spacing of attachments, and other details. Either that, or verify it was stamped by a structural engineer who can be held liable if it fails. Obviously he's not held liable if he designed it to a legally applicable code and then a storm comes along that exceeds the applicable wind speed. Stamped or not stamped, you should know what wind speed it was designed for.

 

[ggunn]

If I installed in that area, I'd be punctilious about the design wind speeds on my installs. If I were you, I'd ask the installer to provide that to me, along with detailed info on how they arrived at the number and spacing of attachments, and other details. Either that, or verify it was stamped by a structural engineer who can be held liable if it fails. Obviously he's not held liable if he designed it to a legally applicable code and then a storm comes along that exceeds the applicable wind speed. Stamped or not stamped, you should know what wind speed it was designed for.

You can't protect against everything and the closer you get to 100% the more expensive it gets. 90%, 99%, 99.9%...How many nines would you like to buy?