The poor economy and doom and gloom?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I generally agree with Marc's sentiments on this issue.

However, until this nation solves its debt problem (IF it ever solves its debt problem) we are headed for big trouble.
 
iwire said:
Dude I just can't ignore this, you see the bad in every possible situation. :D

Anything bad that can possibly happen seems to have happened to either you or one of your friends. Falls, shocks, law suits, fires, thefts, insurance problems, acts of God, you name it and I will find a post where you brought it up. :D

Not saying it is not true only that you are the last person I would consider 'not negative'.
Click to expand...

My position on having the proper insurances, and safety still stand, what is difficult to understand, is anyone that has been in business for a number years, has not seen many or all of these problems.
 
growler said:
Yes, the economy is in the crapper. Even if you have a contract with General Motors or the City of New York either may be bankrupt next week.
Click to expand...

General Motors problems started loooong before the economy hit the crapper. They are their own worst enemy. They should be a testament of how not to run a company in the 21 century, especially when you got people from Toyota, Honda and Hundai beating you in almost every category. And it never ceases to amaze me how this once giant of the auto industry stayed with the same old outdated buisness plan. Now they think that a few billion is acually going to help them.

I really loved the CEO's taking a 20,000 dollar plane ride to Washington to ask for more money.
Maybe these are the buisnesses that satcom keeps harping about.
 
tonyou812 said:
General Motors problems started loooong before the economy hit the crapper. They are their own worst enemy. They should be a testament of how not to run a company in the 21 century, especially when you got people from Toyota, Honda and Hundai beating you in almost every category. And it never ceases to amaze me how this once giant of the auto industry stayed with the same old outdated buisness plan. Now they think that a few billion is acually going to help them.

I really loved the CEO's taking a 20,000 dollar plane ride to Washington to ask for more money.
Maybe these are the buisnesses that satcom keeps harping about.
Click to expand...

I will not go into details as why the foreign companies under cut them for it's against forum rules.

It doesn't make much sense for a multi million dollar employee to fly public. $20k is a drop in the bucket for these companies.

If you could forward me GMs business plan that you talked about that is outdated. I seem to have lost my copy.
 
Last edited:
Well for one they have always been about quantity rather that quality. Dont get upset this isnt a jab at the auto workers union at all. I respect those folks alot, but the truth is they just dont put out good products anymore. Why else would the Japanese be so far ahead?
And when you have the whole country looking at you at least make an effort to seemed concerned about your companys future.
" 20,000 is a drop in the bucket"???????? are you serious? thats practically a half years wages for a low level worker that is going to get laid off soon.
COME ON MAN really think about it.

And with that said im sure this thread will be closing soon...

It makes every sense for a mulit million "employee" to take a $600 dollar plane ride.
This is why the Japanese have one over on us. They really embody all for one and one for all.
 
Last edited:
I would just love to see how much money the American auto industry wastes on irresponsible spending, redudant jobs and bonuses for high level managment that drive their sinking ship into the ground.
If you are going to ask the American tax payer to foot the bill a buisness plan of how this money will help is the least we could ask for.
Dont let your blind patriotism get in the way of logical thinking
 
tonyou812 said:
I would just love to see how much money the American auto industry wastes on irresponsible spending, redudant jobs and bonuses for high level managment that drive their sinking ship into the ground.
If you are going to ask the American tax payer to foot the bill a buisness plan of how this money will help is the least we could ask for.
Dont let your blind patriotism get in the way of logical thinking
Click to expand...

I totally agree. You can add every large company, and put the government at the top of the list.

Who pays for it all? Us suckers. :rolleyes:
 
Im just as red blooded American as the next guy, and Ive always been a Ford guy (Three cars and a truck) but when you compare the service records and historys of american cars with the Japanese there is no comparasin. By nature the purchase of a car or truck is a bad investment no matter how you cut it but it is the degree of badness that you want to limit.
For some reason the big three just never seem to catch on.
I personally havent had to many bad experiances with my ford cars (granted they were all economy cars) but I cant say the same for the trucks. And Ive had plenty of friends that have had nothing but bad things to say about their silverados, rams, f 150's. Things that just shouldnt happen to a 1 year owned truck.
And it all comes down to the companys basic philosophy. Make then quick and make alot of them, if a door handle falls off, dont stop just keep cranking them out. The Big three doesent want you to keep your car for more than 3 years so they dont build them that way.
 
tonyou812 said:
This is why the Japanese have one over on us. They really embody all for one and one for all.
Click to expand...


Would you rather work for a Japanese company at half the pay and no pension plan or work for an outdated American company with full benefits?

The American auto worker had the highest standard of living of any blue collar worker in the world. Having to compete with industry in countries that don't have one tenth the government regulations is what killed the auto industry.

If the American auto industry does go bankrupt it won't be the company that get's hurt it will be all those retired workers depending on the company for their pensions. The company will just re-organize and move to other states and countries where they have less bagage. The company will end up stronger than ever but the workers will lose.
 
growler said:
Would you rather work for a Japanese company at half the pay and no pension plan or work for an outdated American company with full benefits?

The American auto worker had the highest standard of living of any blue collar worker in the world. Having to compete with industry in countries that don't have one tenth the government regulations is what killed the auto industry.

If the American auto industry does go bankrupt it won't be the company that get's hurt it will be all those retired workers depending on the company for their pensions. The company will just re-organize and move to other states and countries where they have less bagage. The company will end up stronger than ever but the workers will lose.
Click to expand...

Well said. Bail out or no bail out it's a bad deal. I'm all for someone to increase their standard of living but don't bring down mine.

Just look 2,4, and 6 years ahead and base your decisions on facts. Don't look behind.

I am in the market for a new truck, I have been a ford guy I just sold my 92F150 with 180K miles on it. The Tundras look more appealing to me. I think the next 3 months will be the best time to buy a new truck. We'll see.

Have you tried your local career center about unemployed electricians? Maybe a temp service might have a good guy that just got a lay off. or maybe everyone in Jersey is working.
 
It doesn't make much sense for a multi million dollar employee to fly public. $20k is a drop in the bucket for these companies.
Click to expand...

That they chose to use a corporate jet to go begging with a tin cup was stupid beyond measure.
They fail to understand perception, and have turned the wrath of the nation upon theirselves. They were even given a chance once they got to the floor to potentially save the day, and still failed.

The Congressman from California summed it up nicely -

He asked for a show of hand of any of the exec's if they would consider flying commercial?

No show of hands.

He asked for a show of hand of any of the exec's if they would consider a wage cut in their packages.

No show of hands.

Guess what the proper reaction is to giving them money from our representatives?

NO SHOWING OF HANDS!

Our governor flys commercial anytime she can. she sold off the corporate jet that the other governor had purchased (along with it, that she would replace him) for the state. She laid off the driver, and cook, and the family manages that, because she looks out for the public's collar.These are real moves by someone who manages a multibillion dollar budget. She is the most popular governor in the nation - Sarah Palin.

I vote they go chapter 11 and learn to get mean and lean, at $55 to about $57 dollars an hour. Going chapter seven, gives them a chance to rearrange legacy, management, and labor costs. All are going to have to see a belt tightening. They are going to have higher rates, because as an American company they are responsible for our military hardware, so it should be a "freebee" add-on, within reason. I want them to be successful. When I look at what my govornor does vs some Detroit exec's, you can see how my vote comes to be.
 
growler said:
Would you rather work for a Japanese company at half the pay and no pension plan or work for an outdated American company with full benefits?

The American auto worker had the highest standard of living of any blue collar worker in the world. Having to compete with industry in countries that don't have one tenth the government regulations is what killed the auto industry.

If the American auto industry does go bankrupt it won't be the company that get's hurt it will be all those retired workers depending on the company for their pensions. The company will just re-organize and move to other states and countries where they have less bagage. The company will end up stronger than ever but the workers will lose.
Click to expand...

About 20 years ago that conversation would have actually meant something but considering that Japanese automakers have had plants in the US for over 10 years, the us verses them debate does not work so well so well anymore. In a lot of instances Toyotas are Japanese in name only.

To answer your question if it were not for my current obligations, I would jump at the chance to work in Japan again. Autoworkers in Japan are well paid, have a very safe work environment with pensions, and a medical system that not only works but provides more than adequate medical care. I would argue they have a safer and healthier work environment than the we do too. They also have a mentality that a job with a big auto maker is a job for life, and have only recently done their first layoff?ever. That and they make a better product too.

If we really want to compete on a global scale with the Japanese we should be studying their play book a lot more closely. However having said that, I feel obligated to point out that China is a far bigger threat than Japan ever was.
 
ITO said:
About 20 years ago that conversation would have actually meant something but considering that Japanese automakers have had plants in the US for over 10 years, the us verses them debate does not work so well so well anymore. In a lot of instances Toyotas are Japanese in name only.

To answer your question if it were not for my current obligations, I would jump at the chance to work in Japan again. Autoworkers in Japan are well paid, have a very safe work environment with pensions, and a medical system that not only works but provides more than adequate medical care. I would argue they have a safer and healthier work environment than the we do too. They also have a mentality that a job with a big auto maker is a job for life, and have only recently done their first layoff?ever. That and they make a better product too.

If we really want to compete on a global scale with the Japanese we should be studying their play book a lot more closely. However having said that, I feel obligated to point out that China is a far bigger threat than Japan ever was.
Click to expand...


Good Post, Presented very well
 
ITO said:
If we really want to compete on a global scale with the Japanese we should be studying their play book a lot more closely. However having said that, I feel obligated to point out that China is a far bigger threat than Japan ever was.
Click to expand...

Not to get off topic, but as a point of historical reference, I don't recall China ever bombing Hawaii. The attack did have economic repercussions.

Back to topic.
 
I think it's going to take some awfully clever thinking and marketing to stay busy in upcoming months and perhaps even years. The "bread and butter" work that so many EC's have depended on for so long is getting harder to come by, so many will have to adapt or become a casualty of this economic downturn.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top