The poor economy and doom and gloom?

[BryanMD]

so the next thing someone is going to say is "well thats because the Japanese companys dont put as much into their health care cost" and I agree but on the average most Japanese folk are in much better shape than Americans.

Ok, I'll bite.

They don't.

They and the European m akers all have a nationalized health insurance program where the costs of such are spread across the entire (working and tax paying) population.

Tony, you think it would be easier to hire a really good and experienced guy if you didn't have to compete with the benefits package he is presently getting at satcoms or emahlers shop? (let alone what the ibew package is)

 

[cschmid]

the real expense in the auto industry is the research and development area..auto makers spend billions every year on this area just to meet the government standards..and are our vehicles really any safer or do they have superior fuel mileage..our corolla is listed at 36 mpg according to the new government standards of listing yet we are averaging 42 mpg..so my chevy truck has a listing of 16 mpg and I average 18 MPG..the auto industry spends lots of cash just maintaining the latest Governmental regulations..So do other industries so who is the real culprit here..

 

[cowboyjwc]

Even so, these guys are not controlling the company.....it's the insane corporate paychecks, bonus, stock options and various "perks" that make the company top heavy.

How much of this sort of "overhead" goes into the price of a car?
All of it.

Well I don't disagree. Just saying.

It was going around the internet and I don't know how many of you saw it, but basically the point was that the money that was used in the original bailout plan was enough to pay off the mortage of every homeowner in the US and have money left over. Then just recently I saw that right after the bail out was approved, a couple of these companies were caught sending their execs to a $200,000 retreat and a couple of other things.

If no one regulates the cost of products, or some products at least, this will continue to happen. Gas at almost $5 a gallon and the oil companies are recording record profits, now that they made their money for the year suddenly gas it down to almost less than $2 in some places. What we found a huge reserve that we didn't know about? Go figure.

 

[cschmid]

Ok, I'll bite.

They don't.

They and the European m akers all have a nationalized health insurance program where the costs of such are spread across the entire (working and tax paying) population.

Tony, you think it would be easier to hire a really good and experienced guy if you didn't have to compete with the benefits package he is presently getting at satcoms or emahlers shop? (let alone what the ibew package is)

Good Point and lets say our nation spends more than any other nation on health care and we rank 36th in our care..

 

[tonyou812]

For years and years I would argue with friends on why they need to drive such big cars and what a waste it is. And why do soccer moms need to shuttle their kids in a suburban? Me and my brother grew up without one and we did ok. But people for the most part would just give a blank stare and say something like "I woulndt be caught dead in a Focus" well now that the big three have put all their marbles in the SUV market where has it gotten them. SHEEEit they could have paid me 100,000 grand and I would have steered them in a better direction. And I would fly commercial flights too......buisness class of course

 

[tonyou812]

Good Point and lets say our nation spends more than any other nation on health care and we rank 36th in our care..

Thats why I would hire a young hard working Polish, Russian, Legal Latino that is happy to learn a new trade and build a future for himself.One that has a goood work ethic from his parents. And with the right motivation maybe work with the goal of one day being his own boss. I really am not so sure at this point Im looking for a guy that is more worried about coffee break and a 45 min lunch. Dont get me wrong I have no problem paying someone what they are worth but beileve me I have seen all types.

 

[tonyou812]

Good Point and lets say our nation spends more than any other nation on health care and we rank 36th in our care..

National Health care sounds good on paper untill you acually need to find a "GOOD" doctor. And god forbid you need an outpatent procedure done. Get in line and wait if you are looking for a good doctor.

 

[celtic]

Again I agree that the guys at the top get to much but that all corporate executives not just the auto industry.

I agree.

well i think 1500 bucks for every car sold goes to their health care plan.

You were close:

Health Care Sticker Shock

Health care costs haven?t just increased, they?ve skyrocketed. For example, in 2000, the company's health care costs for employees, retirees and their dependents were $2 billion. By 2006, the costs had grown to $3.1 billion, a 55 percent increase in just 6 years.

Today the cost of providing health care benefits adds about $1,200 to the sticker price of every Ford car and truck built in the U.S.

http://www.ford.com/about-ford/comp...olicy/health-care/our-health-care-policy-808p

 

[tonyou812]

If you really want good health care try starting with yourself first. We have one of the worst diets in the world and are among the fattest people around. And I find it hard to find pitty for someone when they smoke cigarrtes their whole life and struggle with health problems when they get older. Then they become a burden on the hospital system and want to be "Fixed"
Same goes for diabetics that dont take care of themselves and eat what ever they want. Then they want the hospitals to fix them when its basically to late.
We need to start with ourselves first and I dont think to many people do that.

 

[tonyou812]

The problems with Healthcare run so deep, one is really scared to look to far. Drug companies and healthcare providers are one in the same, sybiotic relationship that is paid for by us. Well Ill leave it at that just got a service call.

 

[celtic]

If you really want good health care try starting with yourself first. We have one of the worst diets in the world and are among the fattest people around.

Personally, I think you should sue Ray Kroc
:grin:

 

[growler]

The whole country was stuck in this 1950's mentality that everything is going to be A O K. Bigger is better and more is even better. And now its time to pay up.

We had a good time for a while, we didn't even eat fish bait and call it food.

Being a true red blooded American I'm looking for a new planet to rape and plunder. I hear they have found ice on Mars so now if they can just find some women and some booze we may have something.

 

[ITO]

So there are people that believe a man making $28/hr only cost $28/hr?.WOW boy are they in for a shocker if they every decided to go into business. After fringes and burden you could almost triple that number.

The big three automakers are in trouble because of Americans, plain and simple. From labor, to management, from lawsuits to taxes. From our taste in big SUVs and cheap gas, to our fickle nature when gas gets expensive and our blotted egos, its really just one big comedy of errors and while good tastes should prevent us from blaming the rest of the world for a problem of our own making, some of us are probably still going to do it.

It has been said here a few times but it all comes down to the fact we as a country spend far more than we make each year, and this mortgage meltdown is still just a symptom of the real problems we face.

Here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90327686

Yeah yeah I know its NPR but is one of the best pieces I have heard yet that describes what happened, it?s a great story you will enjoy listening to it, I promises.

 

[cschmid]

If you really want good health care try starting with yourself first. We have one of the worst diets in the world and are among the fattest people around. And I find it hard to find pitty for someone when they smoke cigarrtes their whole life and struggle with health problems when they get older. Then they become a burden on the hospital system and want to be "Fixed"
Same goes for diabetics that dont take care of themselves and eat what ever they want. Then they want the hospitals to fix them when its basically to late.
We need to start with ourselves first and I dont think to many people do that.

Whole other issue..not all things are self induced some are inherited..so go ahead and tell the guy with diabetes it is his fault because he had a bad diet..yet eating healthy can not be done on pulper wages check out the prices..yet I am diabetic and it is inherited not due to my health at all infact my health issues are due to the diabetes..so you are some what correct but yet dont rule out the system we have created..

You can find any problems you want with any system..I am allears if you want to tell me why we are 36th in health care and yet number 1 in money spent..tell me how to fix it..

So there are people that believe a man making $28/hr only cost $28/hr?.WOW boy are they in for a shocker if they every decided to go into business. After fringes and burden you could almost triple that number.

The big three automakers are in trouble because of Americans, plain and simple. From labor, to management, from lawsuits to taxes. From our taste in big SUVs and cheap gas, to our fickle nature when gas gets expensive and our blotted egos, its really just one big comedy of errors and while good tastes should prevent us from blaming the rest of the world for a problem of our own making, some of us are probably still going to do it.

It has been said here a few times but it all comes down to the fact we as a country spend far more than we make each year, and this mortgage meltdown is still just a symptom of the real problems we face.

Here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90327686

Yeah yeah I know its NPR but is one of the best pieces I have heard yet that describes what happened, it?s a great story you will enjoy listening to it, I promises.

Now you bring me back to our governments solution to the problem and that is creating more debt..with their peoples blessing or atleast the majority of them..I am sure our greed has gotten us here and i am sure our short sightedness is going to make it worse..even though our children have the best intentions with there heart felt desires..I hope it works the way it is envisioned..

Now I believe the one thing that hurts use the most is this computer..our children can do alot with this computer yet it makes them lazy and replace good skills like thinking and common sense..You do not have to be an engineer to do anything in the computer world all you have to do is input the varibles into the program and walla the answer..it might not even be right but the computer says it is and who is to question the results..the computer has made our children lazy..ask a child to do math in there head but let them have a T1 calculator and watch the complex algerbra they can perform, yet do they understand the algebra or are they just inputing numbers..do they know the formula that button stands for or do they just know the button does that function..

personal opinions are my and only my..

 

[tonyou812]

Whole other issue..not all things are self induced some are inherited..so go ahead and tell the guy with diabetes it is his fault because he had a bad diet..yet eating healthy can not be done on pulper wages check out the prices..yet I am diabetic and it is inherited not due to my health at all infact my health issues are due to the diabetes..so you are some what correct but yet dont rule out the system we have created..

You can find any problems you want with any system..I am allears if you want to tell me why we are 36th in health care and yet number 1 in money spent..tell me how to fix it..But we owe it to ourselves to take better care of ourselves. Most people dont even know how to eat healthy let alone what to do with a raw vegetable.
I know plenty of people that are diabetic or on their way to it but do nothing to slow it down. They continue to eat all the wrong things and say "ah you gotta go sometime" only sometimes they take just a part of you. My wifes family is in health care so I get to hear all the horror stories.





Now you bring me back to our governments solution to the problem and that is creating more debt..with their peoples blessing or atleast the majority of them..I am sure our greed has gotten us here and i am sure our short sightedness is going to make it worse..even though our children have the best intentions with there heart felt desires..I hope it works the way it is envisioned..

Now I believe the one thing that hurts use the most is this computer..our children can do alot with this computer yet it makes them lazy and replace good skills like thinking and common sense..You do not have to be an engineer to do anything in the computer world all you have to do is input the varibles into the program and walla the answer..it might not even be right but the computer says it is and who is to question the results..the computer has made our children lazy..ask a child to do math in there head but let them have a T1 calculator and watch the complex algerbra they can perform, yet do they understand the algebra or are they just inputing numbers..do they know the formula that button stands for or do they just know the button does that function..

personal opinions are my and only my..

Come on Brother you know better. Of course many things are out of peoples control. But you cant stand there and tell me most people dont give a crap. Im not a total goon.

 

[tonyou812]

So there are people that believe a man making $28/hr only cost $28/hr?.WOW boy are they in for a shocker if they every decided to go into business. After fringes and burden you could almost triple that number.

The big three automakers are in trouble because of Americans, plain and simple. From labor, to management, from lawsuits to taxes. From our taste in big SUVs and cheap gas, to our fickle nature when gas gets expensive and our blotted egos, its really just one big comedy of errors and while good tastes should prevent us from blaming the rest of the world for a problem of our own making, some of us are probably still going to do it.

It has been said here a few times but it all comes down to the fact we as a country spend far more than we make each year, and this mortgage meltdown is still just a symptom of the real problems we face.

Here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90327686

Yeah yeah I know its NPR but is one of the best pieces I have heard yet that describes what happened, it?s a great story you will enjoy listening to it, I promises.

You said it brother. I get so irritated every time I see a kid with a I phone or a high school kid with an suv. I cant tell you how many lower income homes I go in that have a 50 inch flat screen.
As Americans we all seem to be born with a feeling of entitlement. We feel like its our right to have things at what ever the cost.

 

[tonyou812]

Whole other issue..not all things are self induced some are inherited..so go ahead and tell the guy with diabetes it is his fault because he had a bad diet..yet eating healthy can not be done on pulper wages check out the prices..yet I am diabetic and it is inherited not due to my health at all infact my health issues are due to the diabetes..so you are some what correct but yet dont rule out the system we have created..

You can find any problems you want with any system..I am allears if you want to tell me why we are 36th in health care and yet number 1 in money spent..tell me how to fix it..





Now you bring me back to our governments solution to the problem and that is creating more debt..with their peoples blessing or atleast the majority of them..I am sure our greed has gotten us here and i am sure our short sightedness is going to make it worse..even though our children have the best intentions with there heart felt desires..I hope it works the way it is envisioned..

Now I believe the one thing that hurts use the most is this computer..our children can do alot with this computer yet it makes them lazy and replace good skills like thinking and common sense..You do not have to be an engineer to do anything in the computer world all you have to do is input the varibles into the program and walla the answer..it might not even be right but the computer says it is and who is to question the results..the computer has made our children lazy..ask a child to do math in there head but let them have a T1 calculator and watch the complex algerbra they can perform, yet do they understand the algebra or are they just inputing numbers..do they know the formula that button stands for or do they just know the button does that function..

personal opinions are my and only my..

And when school systems try to pass a rule barring cell phones in school so kids arent distracted or cheat all the freaking parents go in an uproar. you just cant win

 

[triplstep]

I hear they have found ice on Mars so now if they can just find some women and some booze we may have something.

...I'm on board...

 

[roger]

Well, since we have drifted into cell phones I think it's time to close the thread before a miscommunication occurs. :wink:

Roger