This just looks wrong...

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Pierre C Belarge said:
The fitting supplying the bypass meter, does the duct seal conceal a fitting that may not be proper?
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There is a standard lock nut under the duct seal.

The duct seal is not my style but I don't see it as a violation either.
 
IMO the standard locknut would not be code compliant since the raceway is above the live exposed parts within the meter pan. A sealing locknut or Myers hub should have been used. Is duct seal a substitute for the proper fitting?
 
infinity said:
Is duct seal a substitute for the proper fitting?
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That would be up to the AHJ or inspector.

Apparently the inspector saw it as fine.

I do know for a fact this was inspected.
 
Most of PEPCO installations are exposed SE cables

Most of PEPCO installations are exposed SE cables

In the DC suburbs, where PEPCO is the serving utility, most all new installations have type SE cable exposed like that shown in this thread. Even more so.

Consider that they want to install and make up the meter box, so the electrician merely leaves the SE "tails" hanging, and PEPCO does the rest.

Not satisfied with this type of installation, I had occasion to so a service upgrade in PG county a few years ago. I wanted to install the service drop in PVC conduit, and use type THHN/THWN conductors instead of the usual SE cable.

In order to do this, I had to go to the PEPCO service building in Forestville, and pick up the meter box, and sign off on a form for "customer installed" equipment.

I did the job, and the load side of the meter box was nippled directly thru the back of the meter box into the service panel. A nice installation, if I say so (modesty aside). Passed the PG inspection, and then guess what??

Yup, PEPCO said no way. They asserted that the installation violated one of their rules about the load side conductors should be emerging from the bottom of the meter box. Since I had installed a conduit from the back of the meter box, they would not connect it. In essence, I had to change my wiring methods to satisfy someone's bureaucratic need for consistency, it would appear.

I had to raise the meter box up, and use my conduit as a sleeve for a short piece of type SE cable, and terminate that thru a knockout in the bottom of the meter box. Once I did that, leaving a short section of SE cable exposed, they had no problem with the installation and completed the permanent connections.

I am still perplexed to this day why they wanted an inferior installation, with exposed SE cable, when a complete conduit system would be preferable, IMO.

FWIW, most of the installations we do here on Delmarva are using complete conduit systems, with the THHN/THWN conductors as outlined above. The local power companies never have any problems connecting these, and in fact seem to prefer it over the use of exposed SE cables.

The irony of this is Delmarva Power is owned by PEPCO. :confused:
 
Pepco

Pepco

Just wait, next week that install will be OK to PEPCO. BGE (Baltimore area POCO) has a meter manual you can get for free, or just download from their site, no problem, so you know just what they will and will not allow. If I have a choise, I will not work PEPCO territory, cause they are not consistent, change their minds, and refuse to hook up services they already signed off on.:mad:
 
JohnJ0906 said:
If I have a choise, I will not work PEPCO territory, cause they are not consistent, change their minds, and refuse to hook up services they already signed off on.:mad:
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Yes, that is super-frustrating, and you have no recourse or appeal process. BG&E is fine territory to work in. My local market has 5 overlapping POCO's, but they're all great. PEPCO is a famously rough territory. I don't know why they have to be that way. We're all just trying to do a job.
 
In my area of Kentucky, Louisville, You do not see exposed SE cable. I don't have the Utility Handbook with me right now to look for any quotes about the use of full conduit systems for a service.

Most of the Inspectors I think use 230.50(A).

For a Service I believe in protection, conduit or sleeves.
 
iwire said:
Here is a very typical multifamily house service around here.

Dennis8.jpg
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IWIRE, who is your POCO out in that end of the state? Out here, one of the POCOs we deal with requires that manual bypass can and the other one does not...........yet.
 
It depends on the city or town, we have a lot of local municipal utility companies along with the big guys.

This service was in Fall River, I do not know who serves that area.
 
I think this is a good example of how the minimum NEC requirements have become the norm, becasue it's cheap, instead of being practical. It wouldn't take much for a youngster playing around with an hammer and a nail to inadvertantly cause some serious injury. IMO: Code or no Code, from an engineering prospective this is unsafe and unacceptable.
 
kingpb said:
I think this is a good example of how the minimum NEC requirements have become the norm, becasue it's cheap, instead of being practical. It wouldn't take much for a youngster playing around with an hammer and a nail to inadvertantly cause some serious injury. IMO: Code or no Code, from an engineering prospective this is unsafe and unacceptable.
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That is the way I look at this issue. I'm sure it is code compliant but I still feel this type of installation needs to be reexamined.

I've been involved in the trade since 1977 and I cannot think of a time when I have not installed Service conductors in conduit when exposed above ground.
 
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For all of those that think the SE cable is probably going to be damaged - how do you protect the glass meter from also being damaged?
 
Bob......The riser appears to be 2 or 2 1/2" PVC. What size is that service and how large are the service entrance conductors? I would guess 600A minimum. Wouldn't that mean at least 250's paralleled? I thought an overhead service had to be sized for the load to be served unlike a lateral where the POCO can run whatever they want to.
 
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jim dungar said:
For all of those that think the SE cable is probably going to be damaged - how do you protect the glass meter from also being damaged?
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Thank you Jim.

That is a very good question. :)
 
kingpb said:
I think this is a good example of how the minimum NEC requirements have become the norm, becasue it's cheap, instead of being practical. It wouldn't take much for a youngster playing around with an hammer and a nail to inadvertantly cause some serious injury. IMO: Code or no Code, from an engineering prospective this is unsafe and unacceptable.
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See now you talking about things you have zero experience with.

You assume it is bad, you assume it will be damaged.

How would you know?

I have lived in this area my entire life, I have been in the trade about 25 years now.

Up until recently I had only heard of one actual incident with SE and recently I heard of another.

Both of those incidents where caused by cable or phone installers drilling from inside the home to the outside the home. They drilled right into the SE, in both cases they caused severe damage to the SE but none to the home.

Had these been in PVC which is another common method they would have drilled the PVC just as easy as the SE.

Had it been RMC one would hope that would have slowed them down.

There are literally tens of thousands of services done entirely in SE so before you climb a high horse and say that "this is unsafe and unacceptable" do some research, don't assume you already know the answer.

My own houses service I bent up a nice piece of rigid for, I did not like how it looked so I tossed the RMC and went with Copper SE mostly for the reduction in size the copper provided.

The customer can always ask for RMC and get it.
 
m73214 said:
Bob......The riser appears to be 2 or 2 1/2" PVC. What size is that service and how large are the service entrance conductors? I would guess 600A minimum. Wouldn't that mean at least 250's paralleled? I thought an overhead service had to be sized for the load to be served unlike a lateral where the POCO can run whatever they want to.
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I can not remember what size conductors are in the raceway, probably around 200 to 300 amps of capacity.

There are six - 100 amp mains inside.

The NEC allows this via exception 3 to 230.90(A).

Basically once you have more than one service disconnect the service conductors can be sized on the calculated load, not the combined service disconnect size.

This home is all natural gas, no air conditioning so the service runs lights and plugs.
 
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