Threaded fittings

[roger]

My point was it's a dumb argument calling it conduit or tubing.

Tell that to UL or submit a PI to change it in the NEC so that it is all recognized as conduit. Once again, I'm not arguing for or against, just pointing out fact that they are not both conduit as it stands at the present time. In the field we use a lot of slang i.e.; kliens for side cutters, channel locks for adjustable pliers, tugger for wire puller, etc....

 

[roger]

As long as it's installed per nec it doesn't matter. It's a raceway that is installed and once it's complete u pull wire into it.

It does matter if the engineer of record rejects the installation, that is basically the gist of this thread. it could cost a lot of money to redo it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The change in the language of (310.15(B)(2)(c)) for the roof top temperature adder from applying to conduits in the 2008 code to applying to circular raceways in the 2011 code was made because CMP 6 agreed that the term conduit did not include EMT.

 

[kwired]

The change in the language of (310.15(B)(2)(c)) for the roof top temperature adder from applying to conduits in the 2008 code to applying to circular raceways in the 2011 code was made because CMP 6 agreed that the term conduit did not include EMT.

Could they not just said "raceways" and still met their intentions?

 

[Frank DuVal]

I would guess by their names RMC, IMC, EMT, notice it's not EMC, why would you think that's the case?

Because the term was in use before the NEC added it. Show me where the NEC made a manufacturer change the name of their product.

In my 2017 NEC, Article 100 Definitions does not have Conduit or Tubing listed. Is this added in 2020?

But, in the Index, Tubing, see also Conduits!

 

[LarryFine]

Because the term was in use before the NEC added it.

Agreed. EMT was known as "thin-wall conduit" way back when I was a helper.

 

[esc142]

Could EMT weather called tubing or conduit or raceway well it is a raceway, be used in short runs within the length of the 10' conduit length? I know ENT is acceptable in slab I believe also the fittings .

 

[roger]

Because the term was in use before the NEC added it. Show me where the NEC made a manufacturer change the name of their product.

In my 2017 NEC, Article 100 Definitions does not have Conduit or Tubing listed. Is this added in 2020?

But, in the Index, Tubing, see also Conduits!

See Don's post then go to the NFPA website and search the ROP's and look at the UL categories I posted. It's not just the NEC itself that does not see EMT being conduit. If you really want it to be conduit submit a PI.

ELECTRICAL METALIC TUBING
(FJMX)
General
This category covers electrical metallic tubing (EMT), including lengths of straight tubing and elbows, with or without integral couplings or other integral fittings, manufactured in trade sizes 1/2 to 4 (metric designators 16 to 103) inclusive. EMT is for installation of conductors in accordance with Article 358 of ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code’’ (NEC). This tubing is intended for installation and use in accordance with the following information. Galvanized or stainless steel EMT installed in concrete on grade or above generally requires no supplementary corrosion protection. Galvanized steel EMT in concrete slab below grade level may require supplementary corrosion protection. In general, galvanized steel EMT in contact with soil requires supplementary corrosion protection. Where galvanized steel EMT without supplementary corrosion protection extends directly from concrete encasement to soil burial, severe corrosive effects are likely to occur on the metal in contact with the soil. Galvanized or stainless steel EMT that is provided with a metallic or nonmetallic coating, or a combination of both, has been investigated for resistance to atmospheric corrosion. Nonmetallic outer coatings that are part of the required resistance to corrosion have been additionally investigated for resistance to the effects of sunlight. Nonmetallic outer coatings of greater than 0.010-in. thickness are investigated with respect to flame propagation detrimental effects to any underlying corrosion protection, the fit of fittings, and electrical continuity of the connection of tubing to fittings. Galvanized steel EMT with nonmetallic coatings has not been investigated for use in ducts, plenums, or other environmental air spaces in accordance with the NEC. Galvanized steel EMT with or without a nonmetallic coating has not been investigated for severely corrosive conditions. Aluminum EMT used in concrete or in contact with soil requires supplementary corrosion protection. PRODUCT IDENTITY One of the following product identities appears on the product: Electrical Metallic Tubing EMT

The following are a couple sub categories to (DWFV) all conduits listed in chapter three of the NEC are listed under this category. EMT is not there.

INTERMEDIATE FERROUS METAL CONDUIT
(DYBY)
Use and installation
This category covers intermediate ferrous metal conduit that includes standard 10 ft. lengths of straight conduit, with a coupling, special lengths either shorter or longer, with or without a coupling for specific applications or uses, elbows, and nipples in trade sizes 1/2 to 4 (metric designators 16 to 103) inclusive, for installation in accordance with Article 342 of ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code.’’ Galvanized intermediate steel conduit installed in concrete does not require supplementary corrosion protection.

RIDGID FERROUS METAL CONDUIT (DYIX)
Use and installation
This category covers rigid ferrous metal conduit that includes standard 10 ft. lengths of straight conduit, with a coupling, special lengths either shorter or longer, with or without a coupling for specific applications or uses, elbows, and nipples in trade sizes 3/8 to 6 (metric designators 12 to 155) inclusive, for installation in accordance with Article 344 of ANSI/ NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code’’ (NEC).

Roger

 

[Jake@01]

Yes, it can be used in short or long runs. Like most " conduit " it comes in 10' lengths.

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[don_resqcapt19]

Could they not just said "raceways" and still met their intentions?

No, because the research that supported the temperature adder was only based on circular raceways, and did not include wireways which are also raceways.

 

[Jake@01]

The NEC refers to emt as a tubing & not conduit. However, in the trade as electricians it is commonly referred to as conduit. This is something that will probably never change.

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[retirede]

The NEC refers to emt as a tubing & not conduit. However, in the trade as electricians it is commonly referred to as conduit. This is something that will probably never change.

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To state it another way: EMT is conduit everywhere except in the NEC.

 

[Jake@01]

Exactly

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[Frank DuVal]

Good cut and paste, Roger. But, nowhere does it say EMT is NOT conduit! The rules simply refer to the trade name of the product. Each product has a different Article number of the ANSI/NFPA 70.

I want to see where the NEC or NFPA states EMT is NOT conduit.

 

[roger]

Frank, once again the Category DWFV covers conduit and EMT is not under it. The categories I posted were examples of the SUB CATEGORIES under DWFV.

Here it is in full with page numbers

Conduit and Fittings (DWFV) ............................................................................................. 141

Conduit and Fittings (DWFV) 141
Conduit and Cable Hardware (DWMU) 141
Conduit Fittings (DWTT) 141
Retrofit Fitting Kits Certified for Use with Extruded Rigid PVC Conduit (DWUC) 143 Flexible Conduit, Liquid-tight (DWWY) 143
Flexible Metal Conduit Assemblies, Liquid-tight (DXAS) 143
Flexible Metal Conduit, Liquid-tight (DXHR) 143
Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit, Liquid-tight (DXOQ) 144
Flexible Metal Conduit (DXUZ) 144
Intermediate Ferrous Metal Conduit (DYBY) 145
Rigid Ferrous Metal Conduit (DYIX) 145
Rigid Ferrous Metal Conduit with Polyvinyl Chloride Coating Verified for PVC Adhesion Performance (DYJC) 146
Rigid Nonferrous Metallic Conduit (DYWV) 146
Reinforced Thermosetting Resin Conduit (DZKT) 146
Rigid Nonmetallic Cellular Core Schedule 40 and Schedule 80 PVC Conduit (DZLR) 147
Rigid Nonmetallic PVC Conduit (DZYR) 147
Rigid Nonmetallic High-density-polyethylene Underground Conduit (EAZX) 148

EMT is under it's own category and can be found on page 183, it is not anywhere under DWFV

Electrical Metallic Tubing (FJMX) 183

Go to the link I provided in post #38 and look for yourself

 

[don_resqcapt19]

To state it another way: EMT is conduit everywhere except in the NEC.

There are a lot of cases where the field language and the code language differs. It is important for the application of code rules to only use code language.

 

[augie47]

Good cut and paste, Roger. But, nowhere does it say EMT is NOT conduit! The rules simply refer to the trade name of the product. Each product has a different Article number of the ANSI/NFPA 70.

I want to see where the NEC or NFPA states EMT is NOT conduit.

Unlike IMC (Art 342) and RMC (Art 344) which have "conduit" as paert of their AZrticle names and scope (342.1 & 344.1), EMT by Article name and Scope (358.2) is identified as "tubing"

 

[electrofelon]

So sorry if I missed it, but does the distinction ever matter per NEC? Does the NEC ever state something like " conduit that is installed.....shall be...."?

 

[ggunn]

Unlike IMC (Art 342) and RMC (Art 344) which have "conduit" as paert of their AZrticle names and scope (342.1 & 344.1), EMT by Article name and Scope (358.2) is identified as "tubing"

But isn't that a distinction without a difference? Is any part of conduit fill, conductor ampacity derating, etc. different for EMT from "conduit"?

 

[Jake@01]

I don't believe there is any difference.

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