Tip of the Day...6-4-2021...Length of Free Conductors

[infinity]

I don't see that being remotely close to what I said.

The rule very specifically says there must be 6" so I can make a connection. There is nothing that says I can't trim the conductor to make the connection. However, since it is the panel's intent that you can use a splice to get to 6", it doesn't make any difference.

I find it simply stupid that you can make a splice to get to 6". It should be either 6" of unspliced conductor or remove the 6" rule completely.

 

[wwhitney]

Nothing in that language says that the 6" must remain after I have made the splice or connection.

I think the more common way to read that section is that the phrase "for splices or the connection of luminaires or devices" is simply explanatory as to the reason for the rule, and that the meaning and force of the rule would be unchanged by deleting those words. I don't see anything in the language that exempts conductors that are already spliced or connected to luminaries or devices.

A much better way to word a rule have the meaning of your interpretation would be a rule that applies only to conductors that terminate in a box with a free end unspliced and unconnected.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

I find it simply stupid that you can make a splice to get to 6". It should be either 6" of unspliced conductor or remove the 6" rule completely.

Given the second sentence of the rule, perhaps the intention is that for troubleshooting an electrician should be able to pull the device partially out of the box without disconnecting it?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The other problem is if you make a splice does the extra 2" that it takes to go up and down count as 4"? In that case the conductor would not extend past the box.

I like the 3" extension beyond the face of the box. I probably leave 4" or more past the opening but I use deep boxes and try not to crowd them. It makes for easier installs IMO.

 

[jap]

I find it simply stupid that you can make a splice to get to 6". It should be either 6" of unspliced conductor or remove the 6" rule completely.

I completely agree.

JAP>

 

[petersonra]

If the conductor is able to be spliced and is less then 6" why do we need to have the 6" rule in the NEC?

it is another rule that makes little sense but the rule does not say anything about the 6 inches being unspliced so I am inclined to agree it can contain splices.

 

[jap]

Given the second sentence of the rule, perhaps the intention is that for troubleshooting an electrician should be able to pull the device partially out of the box without disconnecting it?

Cheers, Wayne

If you cant pull the device partially out of the box without "disconnecting it", how did you ever make the connection to put the device in the box to begin with?

JAP>

 

[wwhitney]

If you cant pull the device partially out of the box without "disconnecting it", how did you ever make the connection to put the device in the box to begin with?

Good point. Let's change that to "well clear of the box".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Fred B]

I've been the recipient of a short wire on a service call where cabinets were installed after installation of wiring and device, a real pia when you can't even get the screw driver on the screw to remove the wire from the device after a box extension added and tiles, now can't get it removed. Had same scenario with a back stab receptacle, barely get receptacle out enough to get the diaganals in to cut it off, then try to get a splice even onto the wire with one set of wire in and one out, both were stabbed into the back, make that splice. Or when the apprentice had cut short the wire, I'd rather have like @Dennis Alwon referenced 3" or even 4" out of the box, the longer the better especially for countertop receptacles.

 

[Terminator5047]

Ive read that section to mean that I must have 6 inches of wire left once I’m done with rough in for final.
So if I leave 4” of wire at each box and have to add 2” more to make the final 6” at inspection, so be it.
I lose money that way, but it’s the same.

the article doesn’t say BEFORE splices are made..

On new construction this would never fly and it’s pretty shotty workmanship

 

[Hv&Lv]

On new construction this would never fly and it’s pretty shotty workmanship

I agree totally about the workmanship comment.

I never said I would do that, just that the way the article reads it would be legal.
What’s code legal is bare minimum.
It’s a base to work up from, not a ceiling to reach for...
over and beyond code is considered good workmanship in a lot of instances.

 

[LarryFine]

For new work, there's no excuse for short wires, but a damaged wire, for example, can be extended.

In my opinion, in existing work, pigtails are fine for extending short wires to reach devices.

The only alternative would be to replace an entire cable, which is not a reasonable request.demand.

 

[Fred B]

For new work, there's no excuse for short wires, but a damaged wire, for example, can be extended.

In my opinion, in existing work, pigtails are fine for extending short wires to reach devices.

The only alternative would be to replace an entire cable, which is not a reasonable request.demand.

Agreed, but I have had to on occasion, old rag wire insulation so brittle that could get a clean strip, kept breaking. So ended up rewiring the circuit wire even in the jbox in the basement below the room so brittle it couldn't be unspliced without cracking the insulation.

 

[LarryFine]

Agreed, but I have had to on occasion, old rag wire insulation so brittle that could get a clean strip, kept breaking. So ended up rewiring the circuit wire even in the jbox in the basement below the room so brittle it couldn't be unspliced without cracking the insulation.

It musty have been overloaded at some point; that usually happens in boxes above lights.

I try to break away insulation right to the cable, and slide stripped NM insulation on bared wires like that.

 

[readydave8]

If you cant pull the device partially out of the box without "disconnecting it", how did you ever make the connection to put the device in the box to begin with?

JAP>

I wonder that also

always one of those metal boxes with angles where romex enters

sometimes device only pulls out the length of mounting screw

wire shrinks?

 

[romex jockey]

For new work, there's no excuse for short wires, but a damaged wire, for example, can be extended.

In my opinion, in existing work, pigtails are fine for extending short wires to reach devices.

The only alternative would be to replace an entire cable, which is not a reasonable request.demand.

Assumably they realize the can 'o worms >>>>(from the rop)

Some inspectors are requiring the
contractor to replace the wiring in the existing structure. Clearly that is not the panels intent but without clear language, the industry will continue to struggle.

~RJ~

 

[kwired]

The inspector that I had to do most of my work under disagreed. He made us leave 6" of 'free conductor' which did not include the end 3/4 inch or so that would be used to make the connection. To him, and I agreed and still do obviously, the 6" was to remain even after connection. He earned the name Code Nazi but I never had a problem with him. I usually left 7 inches just to make my life easier.

By your rationale, there is also nothing in the code that says a ground rod must remain after you have installed one. Does that make it legal to pull it out after it passed inspection?

True, but I don't really intend to go back after inspection and cutall the conductors short in the boxes, just so I can splice them.

 

[kwired]

I find it simply stupid that you can make a splice to get to 6". It should be either 6" of unspliced conductor or remove the 6" rule completely.

Or at least reword it so you must have certain amount of free conductor to allow removal of devices or similar.

I do hate occasional switch or receptacle that I encounter that you can't even pull out far enough to loosen terminal screws - makes you wonder how they ever installed it unless they wired it up then pulled conductor/cable tight afterwards.

 

[hillbilly1]

Or at least reword it so you must have certain amount of free conductor to allow removal of devices or similar.

I do hate occasional switch or receptacle that I encounter that you can't even pull out far enough to loosen terminal screws - makes you wonder how they ever installed it unless they wired it up then pulled conductor/cable tight afterwards.

I imagine it could be done with those push in wire terminations if used. Takes twisting the receptacle back and forth to get it out.

 

[K8MHZ]

Or at least reword it so you must have certain amount of free conductor to allow removal of devices or similar.

It is worded free conductor in 300.14