Today I was a plumber....

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mdshunk said:
When you consider that plumbers are generally better compensated than electricians, there's more to it than that.
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Why do suppose that is?

They can only burn the place down while there to put the fire out.
Or CO poisoning.

I respect them. I am however loosing respect for my own (cut throat) kind.:rolleyes:
 
keesha said:
Why do suppose that is?
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That's sort of a loaded question, but we'll just say for now that it's a fact. Among all the mechanical trades, electricians are at the bottom. HVAC guys and plumbers are generally always above us on the pay scale.
 
keesha said:
I can't understand why Marc.
Does it make sence to you?
Coppers up. Do you suppose they put more on material?
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I was addressing the wages of the workman, mainly, but no I don't believe that commodity prices have anything to do with it. I think that some of the other trades are lightyears ahead of us on the business end. We fret about code to the subatomic level, while other trades are busy no their forum sites learning from each other on how to rake in buttloads of cash.
 
Plumbers have realized that they provide clean, potable water and stop disease....they also charge more to install moving parts that need to be replaced way more often then electrical components...

electricians don't see that we provide convenience and necessity...they don't realize that we aren't just selling a service upgrade, but rather safety and convenience....so they do it for wages, with no consideration to the long term benefits to the customer...

plus, they are just smarter
 
keesha said:
Whoa is me! So why don't we all start working together? instead of castrating each other?
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Who do you think is castrating you (or me)? I'll share with anyone anything they want to know, if I possibly can. I carry on my business without regard to what anyone else in my local market may or may not be doing. Seems to be working out so far. If you feel like people aren't "working with you", ignore them and you'll soon see you don't need them anyhow. Just be advised that "working together" smacks of price fixing to some.
 
OK, You bid your $75/hr and I'll bid $40/ so I get the job, but wait.. Someone else needs cash so they bid $30/...
Before you know it some jerk is paying the customer for the privilage to work!!!
Don't say it's not happening.

Some guys just think that if they get a check their making money.
I love it.

Thats what I meen.
 
keesha said:
OK, You bid your $75/hr and I'll bid $40/ so I get the job, but wait.. Someone else needs cash so they bid $30/...
Before you know it some jerk is paying the customer for the privilage to work!!!
Don't say it's not happening.

Some guys just think that if they get a check their making money.
I love it.

Thats what I meen.
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Yeah but, YOU are just as much of a jerk in this example.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
Where does this idea that plumbers are making more than electricians come from?
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I don't know that plumbers take home more but I do know their rates are higher then electricians in this area.
 
iwire said:
I don't know that plumbers take home more but I do know their rates are higher then electricians in this area.
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Maybe it's because there are more electricians per capita than there are plumbers per capita? I don't know. There are so many more facets of electrical work than plumbing that I don't believe we are looking at a fair comparison.

Maybe some of us should become plumbers? :smile:

I'm a sort of plumber. I install fuel systems (gas station type), tanks, piping, etc. I often make more money doing that than I do electrical work. (I guess that supports the plumbers make more than electricians theory).
 
here is food for thought...in my area it's not uncommon for plumbers to get upwards of $10 a foot to trench and put a 4" empty PVC in the ground for sewer....so, for example a 50' run from the house to the curb for $5000+/-

however, it is uncommon for an electrician to charge more than $3500-$4000 to install an underground service the same distance...including trenching, conduit with wire in it, service panel etc...

people pay it for 1 simple reason...get 3 quotes from a plumber for that work and they are all in the same neighborhood...get 3 quotes from electricians, and they are in 3 different cities...
 
emahler said:
Plumbers have realized that they provide clean, potable water and stop disease....they also charge more to install moving parts that need to be replaced way more often then electrical components...

electricians don't see that we provide convenience and necessity...they don't realize that we aren't just selling a service upgrade, but rather safety and convenience....so they do it for wages, with no consideration to the long term benefits to the customer...

plus, they are just smarter
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Also the electrical systems we install, if done properly, will provide the customer with trouble free service his entire lifetime.

He will never need to call us back because his electrical lines are clogged and he needs them cleaned out.

How many things can you buy today that will last a lifetime without problems?

That alone should make the electrical systems we install very valuable but yet we sell them for next to nothing.

People will spend $1,000 to $2,000 on a computer that's obsolete in a few years but freak out over spending $1,000 to $2,000 on some electrical that adds value to their home and last their entire lifetime.

Look at how much people spend on their cars. What do they have to show for it 10-20 years down the road?

They'll spend $60 to $100 dollars on a nice meal only to flush it down the toilet a few hours later.

With electrical work the customer is getting a tremendous value for their dollar.
 
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aline said:
With electrical work the customer is getting a tremendous value for their dollar.
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We need to put a stop to that immediately.

As far as wages go, just look at any prevailing wage list to get an idea (proportionally) as to how electricians stack up against other mechanical trades.
 
keesha said:
Why do suppose that is?
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For a great many people professional tradesmen exist as a high-priced option to do work when the DIYer can't do it. In rural areas with minimal building inspections people frame small barns and additions and things on their own. A lot of people do their own trim carpentry and drywall, and it doesn't matter if it doesn't look good as long as they're happy. A lot of DIYs understand on a basic circuit level how a home electrical system works. Mention a trip curve, bundling, or even burial rated cable and you get a blank look. Still, they can install a "working" system where the receptacle powers the vacuum and the switch controls the light the way they want it to. They're short sighted to the point that after they live in the house for a while and their lacking knowledge causes problems, they don't blame it on themselves and their incorrect installation practices. They don't know the difference between the light switch working and an installation that will be safe and maintainable and work for years.

With plumbing it's different. On supply lines it's quite obvious if you messed up when you see water coming out. DWV (drain-waste-vent) lines are a little more complicated with venting techniques and proper slope, but basically if the drains go down and the pipe doesn't leak you're OK. I'm friends with plumbers and pipefitters and I'm not trying to dumb it down, this is just what the homeowner sees.

Maybe it's like this - on residential electrical, 25% of the knowledge is getting it to work right initially, 75% is making it work safely and correctly for many years. On plumbing it might be the opposite. Incorrect venting on drain lines will show up immediately if hubby screws it up, it doesn't develop over time like many electrical problems. Makeup of joints is the same way. A poor wire termination on a backstab, screw terminal, or wirenut will probably work for a while, but a poor sweat connection on copper starts leaking immediately.

To summarize, plumbing is an area where it becomes obvious very quickly to a HO/DIY that they don't know what they're doing. On electrical work evidence that they screwed up takes long enough to appear that they don't connect it with their incompetence. Maybe this is off base, but it's from observations growing up around a lot of people that did almost all of their own work on their homes. Some of them learned from their mistakes and got better, some just live in messed up houses.
 
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jdsmith said:
Maybe this is off base
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No, I think your observations are spot on. You raise a good point that electrical work is far more DIY friendly than plumbing is. How that contributes to the downward spiral of the electrical trade, I'm not quite sure.
 
The outlet I installed works every bit as good as the outlet that expensive electrician would have installed! Who needs a box when you've got silicone.

If he'd done a plumbing job like this he'd know right away he messed up. In this case it works just fine and he's quite proud of his accomplishment. To think my kids may be playing over at some of these peoples houses troubles me. Maybe I should do an electrical inspection of peoples homes before I allow my kids to play over there.

This was wired to some romex without a box for a workbench in a garage. The green wires attached to the hot terminals of the outlet were tied in with the white wires attached to the grounding screw and connected to the neutral wire of the romex. The yellow wires attached to the neutral terminals of the outlet were tied to the hot wire of the romex. The Green wire wrapped around the mounting strap was attached to the ground wire of the romex.

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