Torque screw drivers

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iwire said:
Trouble maker. :D
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Thank you that is the nicest thing I have heard all day. :D
If you want to sell the torque screw driver send me a PM with a price I would be interested in it, I have the T-wrenches but the are a little cumbersome in a small panel.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Can you imagine if this were not true....
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The average house has 3 terminations per device, and there has tobe no less then 1,000 terminations in a house, now look at large buildings????????? I am glad it is a lot of .000000000000's before the number of bad ones.:D
 
peter d said:
Yup, I did. I also know when a device terminal screw is tight and when it is not without the use of a torque screwdriver. :)
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You must have a torque-wrist :D
I had a kid work for me once that said "i have a level eye" in his explanation of why he didn't need a level when running Pipe. yikes.:smile:
 
peter d said:
Not really. :)

Again, I'm not advocating that we forgo torquing connections.

But my cordless screwdriver doesn't have a precise torque setting that I can set when I use it to install wiring devices. :D
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You should try the impact screw gun for that. Works great.
 
iwire said:
Yes I have seen that thread I have even seen burnt out terminations in person.

I still will not use a torque screwdriver to install 15, 20 and 30 amp devices unless forced to.
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I've gather that! Unless it's required by NEC, etc. it's not needed or a total waste of time. Not all but many breakers are tagged by the manufacturers with a torque spec for the screw terminations yet you choose to disregard it!:rolleyes: I don't understand that at all.:-?
 
iwire said:
I have a 3/8" drive inch pound ratchet and a 1/2" drive foot pound ratchet that I do use for feeders, service, bus bar connections etc.


I do have a torque screw driver, I will be honest and say I have never used it and have no plans to start using a torque screw driver to make up devices or other branch circuit sized connections.
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Finally...someone telling the truth.
All of the people that say they torque every connection are full of it.
I have a torque screwdriver with all of the bits and have never used it either. I agree it will feel too loose on the small stuff. I can tell by feel when it is tight enough.
I also have a 3/8 torque wrench but it is in ft-lbs not in-lbs so I have to convert the settings. 1 ft-lb = 12 in-lbs
 
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I have both a 3/8"-drive and a 1/2"-drive torque wrenches that I use for anything 100amps and up.

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Cow said:
My guess is because you don't work in the field. I bet if you started a poll asking who uses a torque screwdriver on small terminations you would be surprised.
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Correct, I don't work in your field. This has come up before and the lack of use by many.

It's hard to understand after reading so many threads about problems with AFCI which can be caused by loose terminations why you'd be against using proper installation procedures. This is a perfect example of the need for more AFCI usage to me! Seems like you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot.

Will it slow you down? Sure but just think, you can charge more! A bigger Ka Ching. A term that I see often here.
 
wptski said:
Correct, I don't work in your field. This has come up before and the lack of use by many.

It's hard to understand after reading so many threads about problems with AFCI which can be caused by loose terminations why you'd be against using proper installation procedures.
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You say 'so many threads' well if people wrote in about all the non-failed terminations you would see the failure rate is very low. I also have a real issue believing that the torque applied on terminals with small conductors is all that critical when 'push in' 'speedwire' or backstab connections are still approved for use.

I took a look at your profile, I will assume your a guy that has rebuilt an engine or two. Now when you installing connecting rod bolts, or head bolts, or manifold bolts I bet you use a torque wrench, I do. :smile:

But when it's all done and your bolting the hood on I bet there is no torque wrench to be seen. Why not? I bet with some digging you could find a factory spec for that bolt?

The reason is you have a skill, you know how to feel it. :smile: and that connection is not being run on the edge of it's strength.

IMO the failures we see at devices are mostly caused by people who move to fast and sloppy not by people who care about making a decent connection.

History seems to back that up, with the millions of devices that have been installed without torque wrenches and have lasted fine for years.
 
I agree iwire for the most part with what your saying experience pays dividends when using your feel to torque lugs but what about the new electrician that hasn't learned the "Feel" ? Might a torque wrench help him with the learning process to obtain it?:smile:
 
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alfiesauce said:
is that JB weld holding your allen keys to the sockets?
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Fastweld 10 by Vantico. Not sure if they even make it any more. Probably very similar to JBW.

ptonsparky said:
I had a set of allens brazed to the sockets. CH has a cb that cannot be torqued any other way. Don't know if they make some longer ones yet or not.
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That's why I make my own. Sockets & allens are readily available, but large, long manufacturered ones are usually special order.
 
iwire said:
You say 'so many threads' well if people wrote in about all the non-failed terminations you would see the failure rate is very low. I also have a real issue believing that the torque applied on terminals with small conductors is all that critical when 'push in' 'speedwire' or backstab connections are still approved for use.

I took a look at your profile, I will assume your a guy that has rebuilt an engine or two. Now when you installing connecting rod bolts, or head bolts, or manifold bolts I bet you use a torque wrench, I do. :smile:

But when it's all done and your bolting the hood on I bet there is no torque wrench to be seen. Why not? I bet with some digging you could find a factory spec for that bolt?

The reason is you have a skill, you know how to feel it. :smile: and that connection is not being run on the edge of it's strength.

IMO the failures we see at devices are mostly caused by people who move to fast and sloppy not by people who care about making a decent connection.

History seems to back that up, with the millions of devices that have been installed without torque wrenches and have lasted fine for years.
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Yep, I know what's critical and what's not in engine repair although I wasn't a auto mechanic.

In your field, where do problems with loose terminations appear and possible fires? Devices maybe? If overtorquing is just as bad as undertorquing, why oppose doing it correctly?

If working too fast causing sloppy work, needing to torque will slow them down!

I have two differnt brand 30A DPDT breakers. One is tagged for 25 lb/in and the other is 45 lb/in. Torquing to 25 lb/in is easy but 45 lb/in takes some effort but your going to be "good enough" in both cases? Do you even look at the tags at all?
 
wptski said:
n your field, where do problems with loose terminations appear and possible fires? Devices maybe? If overtorquing is just as bad as undertorquing, why oppose doing it correctly?
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Could someone explain how overtorquing a device screw can cause a connection failure? I understand that you can overtorque it enough to cause the screw to fail or strip out, but that would be obvious at the time of making the connection.

Thanks, Wayne
 
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