Twist grounds

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I have said many colorfull words while on a ladder working in a j-box on a live circuit and found that someone twisted all the wires so tight it looks like a # 2 cable. I was taking some pendant drops out of service a few weeks ago and everything was pre twisted, wire nutted and taped. I had no idea where the panelboard was so I decided to do this hot. After taking the 1/4" thick layer of tape off the wire nuts, as well as removing them I found that the wires were wrapped so tightly I just had to cut them all and re-strip the wires that were not being removed.

Holdng all the wires flush and installing a wire nut will make quite a good connection. I see no regular need to pre twist. Putting tape on the wire nuts drives me nuts. Theres no need for tape if you did step 1 correctly. Ususlly when I see that the wire nuts are taped, I quickly find out that it was done by an amature. [I do not mean to bash anyone here that tapes wire nuts] It it just most times when I go to fix a problem I find mistakes that anyone called an electrician would have known not to do.

~Matt
 
iwire said:
What are you doing working on a live circuit?
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I needed to get the job done. I was using my gloves and a fiberglass extension ladder. I dont normally do work on live circuits, but this was an exception. I remember another thread all about working on live stuff, so ill keep it short. I know the dangers of working on a live circuit, but I also know how to safely [as safe as possible] work on a live circuit. I use my 1000v rated gloves and wear eye protection. I was tired of waiting for someone to 'find' the panelboard.:mad: We all take risks at times, I am sure of it, but as long as you know what you are doing, you should be ok. however, normally I do not work live. Like I said before I love my job, but I love life more.

~Matt
 
twist grounds

twist grounds

Let's not get started on working on live circuits again!!!!
Those of us that are not (saints) and some would say (stupid) (careless) do it all the time. "opps" did I say that?
I understand about all that tape I agree and hate it also. But as far as twisting I always do and prefer it. It is really good when you take off a wire nut to see if a circuit is hot and all the wires stay together and don't come apart. I don't mean go crazy twisting but I like to twist until the wires turn two or three rounds. About which way to twist you can go either way in my opinion but I prefer (rightey) (tightey) and (leftey) (lucy). But there again I'm right handed. To each his own.
These are my opinions and I hope I don't have to come back and take up for my thoughts because someone doesn't agree or miss reads what I mean in my post.
Have a GREAT and SAFE day. Semper Fi. Buddy
 
Brady Electric said:
About which way to twist you can go either way in my opinion but I prefer (rightey) (tightey) and (leftey) (lucy). But there again I'm right handed. To each his own.
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I disagree... One shouldn't go "either way" with this. If you pre-twist the wires the opposite (counterclockwise) way, when you twist the wire nut on you will be twisting it the opposite way from your pre-twist -- thus loosening the wires from one another.

BTW -- I'm a lefty, and I'm actually glad for that reason. Twisting clockwise as a righty would be awkward AFAICS.
 
You know what really bothers me? When troubleshooting and twist off a wire nut and wires go in all different directions. What a pain!! I always twist mine before applying the wire nut.
 
Im an old twister to. The only time i dont twist is when something im doing REALLY pisses me off or when i have to splice onto a ground that some dumdum cut 1" short in the back of a plastic box
 
TOOL_5150 said:
I was tired of waiting for someone to 'find' the panelboard.:mad:
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Matt, what if you knew

  • that the wires were not twisted under the wirenut
  • the box contained a multiwire branch circuit
  • Expensive equipment was connected to the various phases of the MWBC.

Would you still work it hot?
 
If the wire nut has been properly installed the wires will be twisted together even if you did not pretwist.
don
 
georgestolz said:
Matt, what if you knew

  • that the wires were not twisted under the wirenut
  • the box contained a multiwire branch circuit
  • Expensive equipment was connected to the various phases of the MWBC.

Would you still work it hot?
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No way! The only reason I worked hot on that job was because it was in an empty warehouse. I always have to think about #1 [me], because half the time I am working for myself, and have everything to loose.

~Matt
 
jason said:
You know what really bothers me? When troubleshooting and twist off a wire nut and wires go in all different directions. What a pain!! I always twist mine before applying the wire nut.
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Amen to that from a 35 year "twister". BTW, does anyone else remember the free red-plastic "Scotch-Lok Wrench " that use to come in bulk packages?
 
Brady Electric said:
I have pre-twisted for years but now I don't all the time now.
If you put all solid wires together and hold them even and turn the wire nut clockwise until the wire nut starts twisting all the wires together you have a good connection. then if you take the wire nut off to check the joint all wires stay together and be even at the end. If you have solid and stranded wires you put the stranded a little ahead of the solid and it makes a good twist. As far as pre-twisting I have seen new guys mess up by not keeping wires even. I have also seen new guys mess up by using the wire nut method also. I think in all cases you have to pay attention to what you are doing and you will have a good connection.
As far as using a drill I wouldn't recommend it although the ones of you that do probably don't have any problem but I bet new guys will over drill and cause problems like talked about earlier with one wire breaking through the wire nut. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Semper Fi
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That's exactly how I do it. I have not had a connection failure (that I know of) for many years using this method. I have found enough loose connections by my non-twisting coworkers to know better. The boss knows I absolutely do it this way every time. That is why he insisted that I mount and connect all of the 185 pendant lights at his place of worship (church). The job included swapping out the antique dimmer controls for new and removing several sections of pews to gain access with the lifts. Not the place to lazily "place" the wirenuts on the wires. IMHO - neither is the most accessable juntion box the place either. Fer crying out loud! Is it not our job to produce the best connections we can!!? Last time I checked, we were deemed most qualified for this little task :roll: :roll: I get so ticked when I go to "device out" a job and have to correct my coworkers crappy connections. To me, it's like going to the dentist and not having your cavity completely filled.... Totally unacceptable. ! ! !
 
pre-twist or not to twist

pre-twist or not to twist

I generally pre-twist but I try not to make a braid of 3 or four wires tied together by inserting a finger and twist only the exposed wires,

The logic is fine, to line up and make sure all the wires are the same length but there is always a chance that one or two of the wires can slip when you put the ' nut' over them and twist.

The worst case is when a cordless is used to pretwist and you wind up with a 6 inch of severely twisted wire, those can be a pain.
 
The "master electrician" on This Old House last night claimed a jbox in an attic was a fire hazard because wires had not been pretwisted when the wire nut was applied. It was one of the reasons he stated the whole floor needing to be rewired.
 
petersonra said:
The "master electrician" on This Old House last night claimed a jbox in an attic was a fire hazard because wires had not been pretwisted when the wire nut was applied. It was one of the reasons he stated the whole floor needing to be rewired.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but if the wirenut is applied properly, it will not be possible to subsequently tell whether the conductors were twisted prior to or by application the wirenut.
 
two out of three

two out of three

The old adage of two out of three applies here.

"Do you want it cheap, fast or Quality?"

Straight wires may be cheaper and faster on the labor side, but not better. A quality connection does not depend on only one source of reliability. The old school of a few simply twists holds the wires together and provides more surface contact between conductors and does not rely on the wire nut to provide the current path at the tips of the wires only.

If it is worth doing it is worth doing right. Hold your ground, no pun intended. If this is an indicator of his conscience and principles find another employer.
 
Codegui said:
If it is worth doing it is worth doing right.
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Isn't following manufacturers directions 'doing it right'?

Read the directions that come with the wirenuts.

You will notice it says 'no pretwisting necessary.

But the instructions go on to say keep twisting the wire nut until a couple of twists are exposed. :smile:
 
do any of you guys use the crimp on style wirenuts? I actually like them. no way to undo them without cutting wires, but they just don't come loose, and are pretty quick to make the connection. and as a side benefit, work very well on stranded wire.
 
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