Two wire romex ok for new branch circuit?

smallfish

Senior Member
Location
Detroit
Where in the code does it state that an equipment grounding conductor must be run with the circuit conductors? If I had a two wire romex cable (hot and neutral wire), is it allowable to use it as a branch circuit with non-grounding type receptacles? Thanks
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Where in the code does it state that an equipment grounding conductor must be run with the circuit conductors? If I had a two wire romex cable (hot and neutral wire), is it allowable to use it as a branch circuit with non-grounding type receptacles? Thanks
I don't think that you can install new circuits with non-grounding receptacles. At least not on 15A or 20A circuits. (2011 406.4 (A))
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Where in the code does it state that an equipment grounding conductor must be run with the circuit conductors? If I had a two wire romex cable (hot and neutral wire), is it allowable to use it as a branch circuit with non-grounding type receptacles? Thanks
You could only use that if you installed it in a metal raceway system such as EMT From one end to the other,,,,and no you cannot use a two prong outlet on a new circuit.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Where in the code does it state that an equipment grounding conductor must be run with the circuit conductors? If I had a two wire romex cable (hot and neutral wire), is it allowable to use it as a branch circuit with non-grounding type receptacles? Thanks
Read 250.4(A)(5) and 300.3(B).
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
250.130 implies a permission to use the NM without an EGC to extend an existing circuit that does not have an EGC, but I don't think there is anything in the code that would permit the installation of a new non-grounding receptacle.
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Where in the code does it state that an equipment grounding conductor must be run with the circuit conductors? If I had a two wire romex cable (hot and neutral wire), is it allowable to use it as a branch circuit with non-grounding type receptacles? Thanks
At one point in time this was a legitimate installation, and can be altered with

250.130
(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:


  1. Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
  2. Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
  3. The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
  4. For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
  5. For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
At one point in time this was a legitimate installation, and can be altered with

250.130
(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:

  1. Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
  2. Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
  3. The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
  4. For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
  5. For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
I believe that only applies to dealing with existing installations or extensions to existing installations, but does not allow for new circuits with no EGC run with the circuit conductors.
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
I believe that only applies to dealing with existing installations or extensions to existing installations, but does not allow for new circuits with no EGC run with the circuit conductors.
Correct, but the OP does not mention a new installation, that is why I stated at one point in time and could be altered with. He may have run across an old installation and someone informed him it could not be done that way.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Correct, but the OP does not mention a new installation, that is why I stated at one point in time and could be altered with. He may have run across an old installation and someone informed him it could not be done that way.
Op did not say if this was existing either:p
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
What exception permits the installation of a non-grounding type receptacle outlet on a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit?
I think that the "outlet" in question supplies power for a rotating brush or other accessory at the point of use of the central vac and so is an interconnection between parts of a single system rather than a general purpose receptacle. It should be a proprietary connector not compatible with anything else.
Even so, unless it is low voltage, it is depending on the double insulation of the vacuum attachment for safety, and there should not be any metal parts exposed anywhere along the hose or tool.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
What exception permits the installation of a non-grounding type receptacle outlet on a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit?
Once again: It's a c-vac outlet.



But if you want an NEC reference, 406.4(B):

(B) To Be Grounded. Receptacles and cord connectors that have equipment grounding conductor contacts shall have those contacts connected to an equipment grounding conductor..
 
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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Once again: It's a c-vac outlet.



But if you want an NEC reference, 406.4(B):

(B) To Be Grounded. Receptacles and cord connectors that have equipment grounding conductor contacts shall have those contacts connected to an equipment grounding conductor..
Is that not a receptacle connected to a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit?
(A) Grounding Type. Receptacles installed on 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits shall be of the grounding type.
Grounding-type receptacles shall be installed only on circuits of the voltage class and current for which they are rated, except as provided in Table 210.21(B)(2) and Table 210.21(B)(3).
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Is that not a receptacle connected to a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit?
It is connected to the branch circuit but I have never seen one that was 3 wire. In fact they sell tails of 14/2 or 12/2 nm without grounds specifically for this.

Ever look inside a bath fan-- the receptacle in the fans are 2 wire

I do realize the fan is fed with a circuit that has an egc
 
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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
It is connected to the branch circuit but I have never seen one that was 3 wire. In fact they sell tails of 14/2 or 12/2 nm without grounds specifically for this.

Ever look inside a bath fan-- the receptacle in the fans are 2 wire

I do realize the fan is fed with a circuit that has an egc
That does not answer my question. Is the power connection for the vac system a receptacle?
 
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