UFER ground question

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O

olly

Senior Member
Location
Berthoud, Colorado
Occupation
Master Electrician
Does #4 bare CU that goes from the breaker panel to the uffer ground have to be in a conduit for protection? I have it running down out of the breaker panel that will be in a stud wall then it runs directly into the concrete floor where it attaches to the rebar.
 
luckylerado

luckylerado

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
olly said:
Does #4 bare CU that goes from the breaker panel to the uffer ground have to be in a conduit for protection? I have it running down out of the breaker panel that will be in a stud wall then it runs directly into the concrete floor where it attaches to the rebar.
Click to expand...


250.64(B)
(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its
enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it
is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted
to be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or
larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall
be protected if exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding
electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage
shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building
construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely
fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in
rigid metal conduit RMC, intermediate metal conduit (IMC),
rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting
resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing EMT, or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG
shall be protected in (RMC), IMC, PVC, RTRC, (EMT), or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors and grounding electrode
bonding jumpers shall not be required to comply with 300.5.
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
luckylerado said:
250.64(B)
(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its
enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it
is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted
to be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or
larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall
be protected if exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding
electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage
shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building
construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely
fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in
rigid metal conduit RMC, intermediate metal conduit (IMC),
rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting
resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing EMT, or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG
shall be protected in (RMC), IMC, PVC, RTRC, (EMT), or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors and grounding electrode
bonding jumpers shall not be required to comply with 300.5.
Click to expand...



IOW, no.:)

I have it running down out of the breaker panel that will be in a stud wall then it runs directly into the concrete floor where it attaches to the rebar.
Click to expand...
 
G

GerryB

Senior Member
Location
woodbridge, ct. USA
luckylerado said:
250.64(B)
(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its
enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it
is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted
to be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or
larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall
be protected if exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding
electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage
shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building
construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely
fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in
rigid metal conduit RMC, intermediate metal conduit (IMC),
rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting
resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing EMT, or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG
shall be protected in (RMC), IMC, PVC, RTRC, (EMT), or cable
armor. Grounding electrode conductors and grounding electrode
bonding jumpers shall not be required to comply with 300.5.
Click to expand...
Is that language confusing? Why not just say a #6 or larger, etc?
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
jumper said:
250.68(C)(3) A concrete-encased electrode of either the conductor
type, reinforcing rod or bar installed in accordance with
250.52(A)(3) extended from its location within the con-
crete to an accessible location above the concrete shall
be permitted.
Click to expand...

which does not say you can extend it from the floor rebar which is not a legal GE.
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
petersonra said:
which does not say you can extend it from the floor rebar which is not a legal GE.
Click to expand...

The GE is only the part of the rebar or conductor that is actually in the footer, but the article certainly allows an extension between the GEC and the GE and if that is part or the floor rebar, so be it.

Think of the 5 ft of a metallic water pipe where you can attach a GEC to a underground water pipe. That 5 feet of pipe is neither a GEC nor a GEC, it is merely an extension that connects the two.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
jumper said:
The GE is only the part of the rebar or conductor that is actually in the footer, but the article certainly allows an extension between the GEC and the GE and if that is part or the floor rebar, so be it.

Think of the 5 ft of a metallic water pipe where you can attach a GEC to a underground water pipe. That 5 feet of pipe is neither a GEC nor a GEC, it is merely an extension that connects the two.
Click to expand...

I was confused with Bobs post as well but than I realized he was pointing out ufers do not exist in floors.


From the OP
directly into the concrete floor where it attaches to the rebar.
Click to expand...
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Well, curses and coconuts!!!!

Another muddled thread. Not uncommon.

If the OP has nothing but rebar in a floor slab than the rebar is not a legal ufer/GE. EOS.

If the OP has a legal ufer, in the footing, and it is attached to a floor rebar grid that is tied to the ufer/footing rebar then tying/attaching a GEC to a stub up from the floor grid, which must be tied to the footing rebar properly, is a legal connection between the GEC and the ufer GE.

(Jeez, I hope I typed that right:))
 
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