under-cabinet lights

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Re: under-cabinet lights

The term direct connection appears in the 2005 code in 10 articles. The first hit is in 100 for lighting outlet and the last in 695 for fire pumps.

As I read each article I see that the intent of direct connect has to do with going straight to as in 695.4 (A) fire pumps and the ability to go straight to the line side of the power source supplying current for the pump.
695.4 (B) (1) allows overcurrent protection as long as it is rated to carry indefinitely the sum of the locked-rotor current of the fire pump motor(s) and the pressure maintenance pump motor(s) and the full-load current of the associated fire pump accessory equipment.
As outlined in the hand book this would be the same as directly connected with out overcurrent protection.

In 250.188 The grounding electrode to which the portable or mobile equipment??. shall be no direct connection between the grounding electrodes, such as buried pipe and fence, and so forth.
I take this as to mean not to be touching in any way.

I could go on with this as in 427.26 Isolation Transformer to insure that the heater is directly connected to an AC power source.

By the reading of these articles I interpret the term directly connected to mean going straight to.

It is also my belief that that when the code is referring to permanent wiring means it will come out and say permanent as in
Attachment Plug (Plug Cap) (Plug). A device that, by insertion in a receptacle, establishes a connection between the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the conductors connected permanently to the receptacle.

I can us a plug to directly connect a piece of equipment to the permanently connected conductors of a receptacle.

As to the receptacles that are in rooms other than kitchens, dinning, ect they are by the very definition given in table 220.12 lighting circuits. To carry this as far as to call the receptacles lighting outlets would be correct in theory.
These receptacles are part of the required lighting circuit and can be used for floor lamps, table lamps or attached overhead fixtures.

In 210.52 (B) we find the requirements for the small appliance circuits. We are told in 210.52 (B) (1) exception 1 that if we want we can add another receptacle and switch it for a light as long as we use the lighting circuit.
Being given this exception, we are told in 210.52 (B) (2) that we can have no other outlets on these small appliance circuits except a receptacle for a clock and a receptacle for a light in a gas range. Now if these forbidden outlets had to be boxes why in the world did they allow those receptacles?

Another thought to apply to this is the direct connection to an overhead florescent light fixture in the kitchen that has no box. Where is the lighting outlet? Would it not be the point at which it receives current?
Note that I used the term direct connection here to show the lack of a box.

Should the definition of a Luminaire describe a lamp holder only it would make this a lot easier to understand, but it doesn?t, it includes every thing including the cord cap.
Luminaire. A complete lighting unit consisting of a lamp or lamps together with the parts designed to distribute the light, to position and protect the lamps and ballast (where applicable), and to connect the lamps to the power supply.

A lighting outlet is any place that me, you, or anyone else intends to draw current for this luminaire as defined:
Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.

Now I am going to the hospital to see my mom. Chew on that for a couple of hours and I promise I will be right back.
J Mike W
Cheif of Nothing
:)
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

Originally posted by jwelectric:
The term direct connection appears in the 2005 code in 10 articles. The first hit is in 100 for lighting outlet and the last in 695 for fire pumps.

As I read each article I see that the intent of direct connect has to do with going straight to as in 695.4 (A) fire pumps and the ability to go straight to the line side of the power source supplying current for the pump.
Click to expand...
I agree....direct without a plug and cord. :)


Originally posted by jwelectric:
Chew on that for a couple of hours and I promise I will be right back.
Click to expand...
640.21(E) Between Equipment Racks and Premises Wiring System. Flexible cords and cables shall be permitted for the electrical connection of permanently installed equipment racks to the premises wiring system to facilitate access to equipment or for the purpose of isolating the technical power system of the rack from the premises ground. Connection shall be made either using approved plugs and receptacles or by direct connection within an approved enclosure. Flexible cords and cables shall not be subjected to physical manipulation or abuse while the rack is in use.
Click to expand...
It is direct OR cord and plug

Chew on that. :D
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

I promise to think about your response. But can I ask for an answer to my question? Without further explaining or defending your position, can you tell me if I fairly and accurately described your view?

I ask because we can only come to an agreement, or an agreement to disagree, if we first understand the points in which our respective opinions are different from each other.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

OK. I have chewed upon it. It has not caused me to change my view.
Originally posted by jwelectric: By the reading of these articles I interpret the term directly connected to mean going straight to.
Click to expand...
But ?going straight to? just means that there is nothing else in between. For example, if we were required to install an intervening disconnect switch, then the fire pump would not be ?directly connected? to the source. Rather, it would be ?directly connected? to the disconnect switch.

I guess I can only say that the articles you have cited just don?t tell me that a plug & cord connection constitutes a ?direct connection.?

It is also my belief that that when the code is referring to permanent wiring means it will come out and say permanent . . . .
Click to expand...
I don?t give the code writers that much credit for being precise and consistent in their use of the English language. As a result, we are stuck with trying to understand their intent. They may very well not choose to use the word ?permanent? in each and every case in which they intend to convey permanence.

If, for example, they were to presume that it should be clear to ?everyone? that ?direct connection? is by its very nature permanent, then they would not think it necessary to word it as ?permanent direct connection.? I think we can all agree that there are many statements in the code that are not as clear ?to everyone? as their authors would have intended and desired.

As to the receptacles that are in rooms other than kitchens, dinning, etc., they are by the very definition given in table 220.12 lighting circuits. To carry this as far as to call the receptacles lighting outlets would be correct in theory. These receptacles are part of the required lighting circuit and can be used for floor lamps, table lamps or attached overhead fixtures.
Click to expand...
In this, I must disagree, and I beg you to rethink it. Here is why: Table 220.12 gives us ?General Lighting Loads by Occupancy.? Article 220.14(J) tells us that certain general use receptacles are included in the load calculations associated with that same table. This cross-reference does not cause the ?general purpose receptacles? to become ?lighting outlets.? It merely says that we don?t have to add more load to the total, in order to account for the load from ?general purpose receptacles.? They are not, as you say, ?part of the required lighting circuit.? Rather, they are ?part of the required dwelling unit circuits,? and their load is taken into account by the table.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

Okay lets for the sake of argument say that direct connect does mean that the light is required to be hard wired.

Now help me to understand where the required lighting outlet could be found in an over head florescent fixture that is hard wired with out a junction box.

Also help me to understand whether a receptacle is an outlet or not?

And as for the fire pump the wording in 695.4 clearly states that the fire pump can be directly connected to the line side of the service to the controller, no disconnect required.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

I admit it, I didn't bother to read JW's response up at the top.

But JW, you didn't even get around to an answer to Charlie's question in there? :D

Edit: Charlie's, yes or no, question.

[ May 04, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

JW, I think part of the disagreement stems from the fact that you don't see a difference between "lighting circuit" and "lighting outlet". I and I believe others see a clear difference between the two. 220.3 mentions general-use receptacles and outlets. I take this to refer to the outlets on a general purpose branch circuit in a dwelling. A general-purpose branch circuit may serve both receptacle outlets and lighting outlets. General purpose receptacles such as the livingroom receptacles you have mentioned are usually installed without specific intentions as to what will be plugged in to them. Lamps, TV, air purifier or any listed utilization equipment with the correct cord cap would be allowed. Plugging in a pedestal fan or dehumidifier would not make the circuit an HVAC equipment circuit, in my opinion, any more than plugging in a lamp makes it exclusively a lighting circuit.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

JW said; "Now help me to understand where the required lighting outlet could be found in an over head florescent fixture that is hard wired with out a junction box."

I would contend that a fluorescent fixture could not be wired without a j-box unless it was listed to be installed with the connections contained within the fixture housing. I have seen fluorescent fixtures intended to be mounted on and the connection made in a j-box with the instructions stating so.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

Let me add; A hard-wired fluorescent listed for such installation contains it's own j-box-the fixture housing. Just as recessed light housings come with their own j-box. Some are separate from and some are part of the housing.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

would this then be the point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply this fixture?

If so then the outlet is the fixture, right?
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

"this is not totally all of the dispute"

That's why I said "part of the disagreement".
Personally, I enjoy your position on this subject. I think it's good for all of us to examine deeply how we interpret parts of the NEC and it's intent. Sometimes it changes our thinking on a certain point and sometimes it solidifies our position and causes us to better understand why we see it the way we do. At this point I don't think you've convinced me or some others to change our view but you have helped us become better at explaining why we think you are incorrect on this point. Everybody wins!
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

"would this then be the point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply this fixture?

If so then the outlet is the fixture, right?"

For fixtures listed as such, yes. The fixture housing is the junction box making the "assembly" a lighting outlet.
Here's another one: Explosion-proof MH fixtured with ballast housing/j-box that you pipe in/pipe out. No j-box appart from the fixture assembly. The fixture is in itself the lighting outlet.
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

Thank you Amptech,
Yes I do owe a lot to each and every person that has been involved in this debate. I have learned a lot about my ?05 book over the past few weeks and all due this forum.

I do have deep conviction about this matter and will be hard to sway from this conviction so hope and pray I never make the panel. Here is why.

In the ?93 cycle there was five exceptions to 210.52 (B). 1) For a clock, 2) out door receptacles, 3) switched receptacle on general purpose circuit, 4) receptacle for only motor load, and 5) receptacle for range.

In ?96 two exceptions was deleted one was the out side receptacle and the motor receptacle. The reason and comment given was ?the kitchen small appliance circuits have enough load connected. The outdoor receptacles can be connected to other branch circuits.?
?The deletion of exception four applicable to motor loads now prohibits the exhaust fan from being on a small appliance branch circuit.

It has been the intent of panel two to remove as much from the small appliance circuit as possible. A provision was given to allow counter lighting and all unnecessary loads removed.

There fore
As long a the wording in 210.52 (B) (2) states
The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets,
and the exception stays under (B) (1),
Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.

It will take a lot of explaining (short of a panel member) to convince me that a under cabinet light can legally be installed as outlined in this thread.

Bob Badger
Took me a little research to find but the reference you have made to the audio racks in 640.21 clearly shows that the cord and plug or directly connected is to relieve the use of a disconnecting means.
Just as all the other nine hits on directly connected does not show intent to mean hard wired.

64.66% and going strong
:)
 
Re: under-cabinet lights

Originally posted by jwelectric:
would this then be the point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply this fixture?

If so then the outlet is the fixture, right?
Click to expand...
And in this bizarre circumstance, a section lays in wait. :)

410.11 Temperature Limit of Conductors in Outlet Boxes. Luminaires (fixtures) shall be of such construction or installed so that the conductors in outlet boxes shall not be subjected to temperatures greater than that for which the conductors are rated. Branch-circuit wiring, other than 2-wire or multiwire branch circuits supplying power to luminaires (fixtures) connected together, shall not be passed through an outlet box that is an integral part of a luminaire (fixture) unless the luminaire (fixture) is identified for through-wiring.

FPN: See 410.32 for wiring supplying power to fixtures
connected together.
Click to expand...
The entire sentence bolded above, as a whole, is making it clear that the structure's wiring is ending in the outlet box, even if that box is an integral part of the luminaire. Otherwise, the fixture must be identified for through wiring.

Edit: This is important, because the cord cannot be substituted for the fixed wiring of a structure. The outlet is a receptacle outlet. The fixed wiring stops there, and then the cord starts. Just because there is a light connected to the cord means nothing at all.

Just as all the other nine hits on directly connected does not show intent to mean hard wired.
Click to expand...
640.21 (E) Between Equipment Racks and Premises Wiring System. Flexible cords and cables shall be permitted for the electrical connection of permanently installed equipment racks to the premises wiring system to facilitate access to equipment or for the purpose of isolating the technical power system of the rack from the premises ground. Connection shall be made either using approved plugs and receptacles or by direct connection within an approved enclosure. Flexible cords and cables shall not be subjected to physical manipulation or abuse while the rack is in use.
Click to expand...
So this literally means "either using approved plugs and receptacles, or some other means of connection that we are not qualified to devine the intent of."

Okie dokie.

[ May 05, 2005, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
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