Underground 4/0-4/0-2/0 aluminum service wire

[MattG0311]

Here is the picture of the 2/0 copper 3 wire and he turned this down as well

If that wire isn’t protected by a raceway it’s a no go. Run your conductors in PVC/EMT/rigid or whatever…or switch it out to an SE cable that doesn’t require a raceway where not subject to damage.

Read through 300.18.

Also, what is “crush proof” wire? Can’t say I’ve seen the term mentioned in the NEC.

 

[MattG0311]

If that wire isn’t protected by a raceway it’s a no go. Run your conductors in PVC/EMT/rigid or whatever…or switch it out to an SE cable that doesn’t require a raceway where not subject to damage.

Read through 300.18.

Also, what is “crush proof” wire? Can’t say I’ve seen the term mentioned in the NEC.

230.32 and 230.43 as well outline acceptable wiring methods for your service conductors.

 

[roger]

I guess you never came up with a definite conclusion? I said this wire is crush proof underground wire and nothing we found in the 2017 code other then what this idiot Chief electrical inspector said we can not use to tie into the main breaker box . What about the 3 wire 2/0 copper we changed through which I sent you a picture?

Answer these questions.

Is this a cable assembly?
If it is a cable assembly what is the cable designated? (i.e. USE, SER, NM-B)
Is there conduit from the LB to the panel or are you using open conductors?

As stated by hillbilly, the picture does not tell us much.

 

[kwired]

Here is the picture of the 2/0 copper 3 wire and he turned this down as well

have a better picture, can't hardly see anything in that one. kind of looks like at least the neutral conductor is exiting the top of cabinet in it's own KO though, which suggests you did not run these individual conductors in a raceway to the meter socket. If so that is what you are failing on. Such individual conductors are not rated to be run that way, they must be in a raceway. Cable assemblies could be run with no raceway, about only cable that can be used for service conductors is a type SE cable. Type USE conductors can be directly buried but need to be contained in raceway when they emerge from underground.

 

[solidgroundconstruct@gmai]

I am sending you the specs on this wire we first used which is the crush proof 3 wire 4/0 aluminum
We installed underground RHH-RHW wire from the pole to 200A box then continued that into the 200A service panel inside Inspector turned it down, stating 300.3 in table310.104(A) Also 300.18 shall be installed complete between outlet, junction,or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Your panel and meter base are certainly splice points and or junctions. The conductors in question are carrying unprotected current and without a disconnect, other than pulling the meter.
This under ground wire was coated and crushproof 600V rated 2 hour fire rating. 90deg C. . RHW cables can be used for raceway, duct, direct burial, and aerial installations. These wires are suitable for installation in raceway, duct, direct burial, and aerial installations in accordance with National Electric Code and other general-purpose wiring applications.
We then installed three wire 2/0 copper and he turned that down also stating the same code above
we see no difference in Applications. 4/0 AWG Aluminum XHHW/ XHHW-2 wires are primarily used for power distribution; and are sometimes referred to as feeders. They may be used in wet or dry locations with conductor temperatures not exceeding 90°C and may be used in conduit and recognized raceways as specified in the National Electrical Code. Need your advise please
RHW-2 – Having the same inherent qualities as RHW, the NEC lists RHW-2 as having the ability to withstand heats of up to 90° C. RHW-2 cable is suitable for direct burial in both wet or dry conditions.

USE-2

U = Underground
S = Service
E = Entrance

USE-2 cable stands for Underground Service Entrance cable. USE-2 cable can be used underground since it is able withstand pressure and is resistant to other elements such as sunlight (black only), oil and gas. USE-2 is a good choice for industrial applications where better insulation toughness and resistance to moisture and heat are desired. USE-2 can be used as RHW-2 or RHH cable at temperatures up to 90°C in wet or dry locations.

What does the “-2” stand for? It is a designation used for the 90° C temperature rating. In the past, there was a plain USE, but it is now generally considered obsolete and replaced by USE-2.

RHH

Very similar to RHW/RHW-2 cable. As mentioned above, the R stands for Rubber – but in this case the extra “H”, or HH in RHH, stands for High Heat resistance of 90° C. The trade-off is that RHH cable does not possess the water resistance characteristic of RHW / RHW-2 cable.

Similarities: Both RHH and RHW / RHW-2 cable hold a 600 V rating. Both cables can be found in lighting, power systems and general wiring applications – depending on the location and environmental conditions.



We installed the above and used it to go into the panel please see the codes he used to have us tear it out

 

[solidgroundconstruct@gmai]

Bye the way we install the 2/0 copper from the top of the meter directly through the LB and into the service panel.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Bye the way we install the 2/0 copper from the top of the meter directly through the LB and into the service panel.

Why are you not answering questions that have been posted to you? Some seem to think you didn't run conduit from the meter to the panel. The conduit with lb must cover the conductors all the way.

It is hard to answer your question without answering ours.

 

[solidgroundconstruct@gmai]

If I understand what your saying; We ran an under ground wire to and up into conduit to the meter box We then ran the same RHH-2 from the top of the meter box in conduit and through the LB through and directly into the service panel

 

[kwired]

I am sending you the specs on this wire we first used which is the crush proof 3 wire 4/0 aluminum
We installed underground RHH-RHW wire from the pole to 200A box then continued that into the 200A service panel inside Inspector turned it down, stating 300.3 in table310.104(A) Also 300.18 shall be installed complete between outlet, junction,or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Your panel and meter base are certainly splice points and or junctions. The conductors in question are carrying unprotected current and without a disconnect, other than pulling the meter.
This under ground wire was coated and crushproof 600V rated 2 hour fire rating. 90deg C. . RHW cables can be used for raceway, duct, direct burial, and aerial installations. These wires are suitable for installation in raceway, duct, direct burial, and aerial installations in accordance with National Electric Code and other general-purpose wiring applications.
We then installed three wire 2/0 copper and he turned that down also stating the same code above
we see no difference in Applications. 4/0 AWG Aluminum XHHW/ XHHW-2 wires are primarily used for power distribution; and are sometimes referred to as feeders. They may be used in wet or dry locations with conductor temperatures not exceeding 90°C and may be used in conduit and recognized raceways as specified in the National Electrical Code. Need your advise please
RHW-2 – Having the same inherent qualities as RHW, the NEC lists RHW-2 as having the ability to withstand heats of up to 90° C. RHW-2 cable is suitable for direct burial in both wet or dry conditions.

USE-2

U = Underground
S = Service
E = Entrance

USE-2 cable stands for Underground Service Entrance cable. USE-2 cable can be used underground since it is able withstand pressure and is resistant to other elements such as sunlight (black only), oil and gas. USE-2 is a good choice for industrial applications where better insulation toughness and resistance to moisture and heat are desired. USE-2 can be used as RHW-2 or RHH cable at temperatures up to 90°C in wet or dry locations.

What does the “-2” stand for? It is a designation used for the 90° C temperature rating. In the past, there was a plain USE, but it is now generally considered obsolete and replaced by USE-2.

RHH

Very similar to RHW/RHW-2 cable. As mentioned above, the R stands for Rubber – but in this case the extra “H”, or HH in RHH, stands for High Heat resistance of 90° C. The trade-off is that RHH cable does not possess the water resistance characteristic of RHW / RHW-2 cable.

Similarities: Both RHH and RHW / RHW-2 cable hold a 600 V rating. Both cables can be found in lighting, power systems and general wiring applications – depending on the location and environmental conditions.



We installed the above and used it to go into the panel please see the codes he used to have us tear it out

Did you read the sections he cited?


As mentioned already your conductors are not in a recognized wiring method, particularly between meter and panel. USE is permitted to be direct buried but must be in raceway once it emerges from below ground. You have mentioned conductors used can be used for "aerial" but "aerial" conductors do have clearance requirements and so this doesn't mean they can be open conductors in just any application.

310.104(A) is same table as 310.4(A) in my snip of 300.3, it just got moved to a new location in 2020 NEC it is a listing of acceptable conductor types, which you appear to have appropriate conductor types, but 300.3 says they must be in recognized wiring methods of chapter 3, like EMT, RMC, RNMC, wireways, etc. or a recognized cable in chapter 3 like SE, MC, NM - though some cables can not be used for service conductors so you do need to pay attention to that in your application.


This continues on next page, but the applicable text is in what this has, this is stating raceways need to be be complete between outlets, boxes, and similar, you have mentioned that yours is not. Had you been running a type SE cable you would be permitted to use short pieces of raceway as a protective sleeve then continue the cable as an open cable but a 310.4(A) conductor must be in a complete raceway between boxes.

 

[kwired]

If I understand what your saying; We ran an under ground wire to and up into conduit to the meter box We then ran the same RHH-2 from the top of the meter box in conduit and through the LB through and directly into the service panel

That RHH-2, actually the RHW rating of that conductor is what lets you run it underground. The W is what gives it the wet rating. To be direct buried it also must have a USE rating, which there is good chance it also has that rating marked on it. But that direct bury rating is only what it says, it can't be run outside raceways any place else, other than where it would also need to meet required clearances for exposed conductors - anymore this is typically only found at locations like where converting from raceway to a service drop conductor.

 

[roger]

If I understand what your saying; We ran an under ground wire to and up into conduit to the meter box We then ran the same RHH-2 from the top of the meter box in conduit and through the LB through and directly into the service panel

I second Dennis's question, why can't you answer the questions?

One more time. To simplify the question, are the 2/0 RHH-2 conductors part of a cable assembly or not.

We're not asking about the conductors themselves, we need to know whether they are in a jacket or not in a jacket.

 

[kwired]

I second Dennis's question, why can't you answer the questions?

One more time. To simplify the question, are the 2/0 RHH-2 conductors part of a cable assembly or not.

We're not asking about the conductors themselves, we need to know whether they are in a jacket or not in a jacket.

What jacket would they be in that allows them to be direct buried? That portion apparently has passed the inspection. Best I can tell he likely has conductors with multiple ratings, RHW, RHH-2, and likely though not mentioned USE as well. May or may not be "triplexed" but still individual conductors without an overall outer covering.

 

[roger]

What jacket would they be in that allows them to be direct buried? That portion apparently has passed the inspection. Best I can tell he likely has conductors with multiple ratings, RHW, RHH-2, and likely though not mentioned USE as well. May or may not be "triplexed" but still individual conductors without an overall outer covering.

If you read my post closely you will see I'm specifically asking about the 2/0 conductors the OP is talking about, not the in ground conductors.
He has said they changed the conductors to the panel after the initial red tag.

 

[kwired]

If you read my post closely you will see I'm specifically asking about the 2/0 conductors the OP is talking about, not the in ground conductors.
He has said they changed the conductors to the panel after the initial red tag.

My understanding those were probably THHN/THWN conductors, still ran in same manner - no complete raceway between meter and panel, and resulting in same code violations.

His inspector maybe could have done better explaining, especially after that correction attempt, to tell him exactly what was being done wrong though.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would assume the op knows that he cannot run wiring from the LB to the panel with it being in a raceway unless it is a cable as Roger stated.

One more time-- Is there conduit between the LB and the panel?

If not is the 2/0 part of an se cable with a jacket on it? For instance SEU cable.

Did the inspector pass your install with the 2/0 conductors that you replaced?

 

[roger]

My understanding those were probably THHN/THWN conductors, still ran in same manner - no complete raceway between meter and panel, and resulting in same code violations.

His inspector maybe could have done better explaining, especially after that correction attempt, to tell him exactly what was being done wrong though.

Your understanding was wrong, see post #48 and read it closely, it says

We then ran the same RHH-2 from the top of the meter box in conduit and through the LB through and directly into the service panel

 

[wwhitney]

Your understanding was wrong, see post #48 and read it closely, it says

That doesn't actually say there is conduit between the LB and the service panel, just between the LB and the meter box.

After so many direct questions, failure to explicitly say there is conduit between the LB and the service panel, along with the code citations given, strongly suggests there is no conduit between the LB and the service panel.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[roger]

That doesn't actually say there is conduit between the LB and the service panel, just between the LB and the meter box.

Duhhh, brilliant Wayne. Why do you think we have been asking the OP to clarrify whether the 2/0 is an assembly or single conductors?

 

[roger]

The reason I told kwired to read post #48 is to clear up his understanding of what conductors are being used, it was stated clearly that they are RHH-2.

 

[wwhitney]

Duhhh, brilliant Wayne. Why do you think we have been asking the OP to clarrify whether the 2/0 is an assembly or single conductors?

No need for the attitude.

You didn't trim the quote from kwired to specify which part you were responding to--I understood it to be the "no complete raceway between meter and panel," not the "THHN/THWN" part, and I responded accordingly.

Cheers, Wayne