singledad234
Member
i agree with the earlier post, take his bribe money then punch him dead between the eyes followed with a roundhouse kick to the gut.
Unlicensed person doing finish on my permit
- Thread starter zaptd
- Start date
- Status
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
And after that, get serious!
flashlight
Senior Member
- Location
- NY, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician, semi-retired
It may be satisfying to contemplate "frontier justice," but I think the earlier post was talking about hitting him with all the legal tools at your disposal, not doing some rash act which could get you incarcerated and not help your cause (or license).
Last edited:
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
Years ago, I was the one who finished a job for a homeowner who had "fired" an inept electrician.
I got a permit for my work to "finish job started by another electrician" and the other electrician did have a permit, which was canceled once my new permit was issued.
Some of the things that I had to correct were: Homerun circuit feeds missing; too small wire feeding HVAC units; and many other mis-wired switches, devices, etc.
The HO paid me in full (T&M), and withheld the remaining $$$ from the other electrician's contract amount.
Other electrician sued HO for breach of contract, and won in court. HO ended up having to pay both of us.
The lesson learned here was the HO should have provided suitable written notice of breach of contract to the first electrician before firing him and hiring me to finish the job. All that would have been required was a 10 day notice sent certified mail, return receipt. Since the HO did not do that, he was held liable for his original contract, even though I finished the work.
You might want to contact an attorney, lay low (let them complete the job), and then sue for the remaining contract amount. Chances are, you will get all your $$$$ regardless of who completes the job.
I got a permit for my work to "finish job started by another electrician" and the other electrician did have a permit, which was canceled once my new permit was issued.
Some of the things that I had to correct were: Homerun circuit feeds missing; too small wire feeding HVAC units; and many other mis-wired switches, devices, etc.
The HO paid me in full (T&M), and withheld the remaining $$$ from the other electrician's contract amount.
Other electrician sued HO for breach of contract, and won in court. HO ended up having to pay both of us.
The lesson learned here was the HO should have provided suitable written notice of breach of contract to the first electrician before firing him and hiring me to finish the job. All that would have been required was a 10 day notice sent certified mail, return receipt. Since the HO did not do that, he was held liable for his original contract, even though I finished the work.
You might want to contact an attorney, lay low (let them complete the job), and then sue for the remaining contract amount. Chances are, you will get all your $$$$ regardless of who completes the job.
Even if he was knowledgeable and experienced, the liability would not be on him if something went wrong. I don't think the union looks to kindly on moonlighting, really against the union way.
I agree with a lot of opinions on this board, if he doesn't want you to do it inform the AHJ you are no longer the contractor doing the work. If there was a signed contract for the whole job you have weight your options on how you want to handle the rest. Just make sure you are not liable for any problems caused by someone else.
Article 90.1
Senior Member
Not sure if this is the case, but the day that residential electricians stop bidding houses as two separate jobs, rough and trim, this is the day that we all win. We, as electricians install complete electrical systems, not half of a system. Sure, having bid draws for rough and trim are fine, but a best practices business model dictates that the contract be for the entire project. I see this scenario more and more with contractors using square foot pricing, time to evolve and be more successful business owners guys and gals.
All that being said, the OP's position is not a comfortable one. I agree with everyone else, use the laws, but see what you can work out as Gentlemen first. I'd use your attorney for the paperwork, but try to stay out of a lawsuit, lawyers are fat enough!
All that being said, the OP's position is not a comfortable one. I agree with everyone else, use the laws, but see what you can work out as Gentlemen first. I'd use your attorney for the paperwork, but try to stay out of a lawsuit, lawyers are fat enough!
aelectricalman
Senior Member
- Location
- KY
I say, bring your pick up truck in and tie a chain around the meter base (id use a piece of hard core rubber between your truck hitch and the chain to insulate you a little bit from electrical shock). Then take off at about 30 MPH. That meters probably held on with concrete anchors. Keep on going, dont stop whatever you do. Park in an alley and get ride of the evidence. Or, just be nice and send them a singing telegram. It can go like this:
"I have something to report.
Im taking your crooked ars to court.
Fa la la la la, la la la laaaaaaaaaa
Whatever your do, do not do any of this! Do not try this at home. Im just kidding. No animals were harmed in the production of this BS.
"I have something to report.
Im taking your crooked ars to court.
Fa la la la la, la la la laaaaaaaaaa
Whatever your do, do not do any of this! Do not try this at home. Im just kidding. No animals were harmed in the production of this BS.
The 480 trick sounds like a story I heard about a mason that builds fireplaces, rumor has it he would put a pane of glass between 2 sections of clay liner. If the homeowner tryed to stiff him and then went to use the fireplace it would fill the house with smoke.
The homeowner would call the mason and would be told pay the bill and it will work. After payment in full the mason would go on the roof and drop a brick down the chimney breaking the glass and get in his truck and drive straight to the bank.
The homeowner would call the mason and would be told pay the bill and it will work. After payment in full the mason would go on the roof and drop a brick down the chimney breaking the glass and get in his truck and drive straight to the bank.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
I've met over 20 people that knew a mason that used to do that, I wonder if anyone ever really did.
singledad234
Member
one thing to remember is that not every electrician wires the same. I always try to make my switch connections seem a little puzzling to other electricians. If they want to figure it out it would take a little ohming out of some wires, but it wouldnt be that hard. To a jackleg it would be mind blowing to figure out.
I've heard the same story, but the glass was directly under the cap at the top of the fireplace. Remove the cap, pull out the glass, and replace the cap. Drive home with a piece of glass for the next job as well as a pocket full of dead presidents.
CopperTone
Senior Member
- Location
- MetroWest, MA
the OP is in mass I think -
The note thing is not the EC's responsiblilty. All you are responsible for doing is notifiy the electrical inspector and or building dept at the town or city hall that you want to take your name off the permit as you are not completing the work and the homeowner and next electrician will be responsible for the note and getting a new permit. Make sure you tell the town and inspector you are not doing the work. Tell them the homeowner wont write a letter and you think he is trying to pull a fast one - the town will get on the homeowner quick.
All you can do now is walk away.
I get 2/3rds of payment ofter the rough but I don't bring the arc fault breakers or regular breakers until finish - most hacks are afraid of hooking up the panel and the arc faults are expensive.
The note thing is not the EC's responsiblilty. All you are responsible for doing is notifiy the electrical inspector and or building dept at the town or city hall that you want to take your name off the permit as you are not completing the work and the homeowner and next electrician will be responsible for the note and getting a new permit. Make sure you tell the town and inspector you are not doing the work. Tell them the homeowner wont write a letter and you think he is trying to pull a fast one - the town will get on the homeowner quick.
All you can do now is walk away.
I get 2/3rds of payment ofter the rough but I don't bring the arc fault breakers or regular breakers until finish - most hacks are afraid of hooking up the panel and the arc faults are expensive.
Permit Release Form
Permit Release Form
Use this Permit Release Form to notify AHJ that you have withdrawn from the project and request that your permit be withdrawn. Also note the reason why.
Permit Release
Permit #: _________________________ Date: _____________
To: Manager, Inspection Department
From: Red Square Electric, Inc.
Homeowner/Contractor: ___________________________________________________
Address: ______________________________________________
Phone #: ____________________
Property Address: _______________________________
City: ____________________ State: _____ Zip: _________
Red Square Electric, Inc. is the permit holder at the above referenced property and issue notification that we have withdrawn from this project and the associated permit as electrical contractor for the above permitted work. The homeowner or contractor has been personally notified of this action. I hereby request the above permit be withdrawn.
_________________________________ __________________________________
Signature of Contractor Printed Name of Contractor
Sworn to and subscribed before me this ______day of _____________________, 2009.
_________________________________ __________________________________
Signature & Seal of Notary Public My Commission Expires
Permit Release Form
Use this Permit Release Form to notify AHJ that you have withdrawn from the project and request that your permit be withdrawn. Also note the reason why.
Permit Release
Permit #: _________________________ Date: _____________
To: Manager, Inspection Department
From: Red Square Electric, Inc.
Homeowner/Contractor: ___________________________________________________
Address: ______________________________________________
Phone #: ____________________
Property Address: _______________________________
City: ____________________ State: _____ Zip: _________
Red Square Electric, Inc. is the permit holder at the above referenced property and issue notification that we have withdrawn from this project and the associated permit as electrical contractor for the above permitted work. The homeowner or contractor has been personally notified of this action. I hereby request the above permit be withdrawn.
_________________________________ __________________________________
Signature of Contractor Printed Name of Contractor
Sworn to and subscribed before me this ______day of _____________________, 2009.
_________________________________ __________________________________
Signature & Seal of Notary Public My Commission Expires
The release form is a good start but you should go into more detail about the project and what work you did before the others took over. Also explain that the HO refuses to write a release or allow you on site. (That is in what's happening)
There is no legal way to make the HO write a release so it is unrealistic for an inspector to demand one.
There is no legal way to make the HO write a release so it is unrealistic for an inspector to demand one.
You don't need a release letter
You don't need a release letter
If the home owner breached the contract by hiring another contractor to finish the job with no fault of yours; sue them for breach of contract and put the building department and home owner on notice as of why you are withdrawing your permit. You don?t need a release letter from the home owner. Limit your liability by doing it this way then keep a copy of the notice for your records and move on. The new electrician is responsible for all the work.
You don't need a release letter
If the home owner breached the contract by hiring another contractor to finish the job with no fault of yours; sue them for breach of contract and put the building department and home owner on notice as of why you are withdrawing your permit. You don?t need a release letter from the home owner. Limit your liability by doing it this way then keep a copy of the notice for your records and move on. The new electrician is responsible for all the work.
radiopet
Senior Member
- Location
- Spotsylvania, VA
Why not call your state licensing board and turn the person in to them. That way you have history of at least you reported it and so it something happens you show you did your part in letting them know.
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Dittoes, genius for sure. I wish a former boss and I had been able to booby trap a job that nearly bankrupted him. We did the whole job and got shafted on payments. Customer and GC manipulated us in many ways. I use to wish we had something like an RC device we could trigger from the road to shut down a room of lights or equipment. When called for service, we could have said "we show you long overdue for payment, we need a check before any work".
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Deposits & Details
Deposits & Details
Another angle on all this. Get deposits up front and payments at stages. Doesn't always prevent getting shafted but helps some. If someone balks at a deposit, he will likely balk at paying later too.
In a similar vein, when giving estimates do not write up materials in any great detail. I posted on another thread about a customer who use to get quotes from us for a job and we didn't hear back. He'd call later for quote on another job and I'd see the 1st job already done, poorly done. He was using the quote for a material list and doing it himself. He'd figure by trial and error how to put it together, or look at something similar in the building. After wising up, I'd quit detailing info on quotes. 60' of #4 THHN became "wire". I'd list details on my copy.
Most people are OK but there are some shysters out there.
Deposits & Details
Another angle on all this. Get deposits up front and payments at stages. Doesn't always prevent getting shafted but helps some. If someone balks at a deposit, he will likely balk at paying later too.
In a similar vein, when giving estimates do not write up materials in any great detail. I posted on another thread about a customer who use to get quotes from us for a job and we didn't hear back. He'd call later for quote on another job and I'd see the 1st job already done, poorly done. He was using the quote for a material list and doing it himself. He'd figure by trial and error how to put it together, or look at something similar in the building. After wising up, I'd quit detailing info on quotes. 60' of #4 THHN became "wire". I'd list details on my copy.
Most people are OK but there are some shysters out there.
- Status