USB Receptacle

[jap]

Where does the nec state that you cannot use a single recep 15 amp on a 20 amp circuit if it feeds other outlets?

I guess we're going to have to start posting signs, where this scenario takes place, at every outlet, that says

"Danger do not remove", otherwise we leave the possibiliity of having a bunch of 15a simplex receptacles on 20 Amp circuits.
.

But then there will be a lot of head scratching trying to figure out why we posted the signs in the first place.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What I'm saying is you don't count the "assembly" as one receptacle AND one outlet to qualify as "two or more receptacles or outlets", do you?

I think you do just as you count a duplex as 2.

 

[Smart $]

deleted

 

[Smart $]

I think you do just as you count a duplex as 2.

Well then, there is no point to 210.21(B)(1). A simplex (single) receptacle always has to be connected to an outlet. If you can count this as 2, then you can always invoke 210.21(B)(3) and put a 15A simplex on a 20A circuit...???


The "two or more receptacles or outlets" should read "two or more receptacles or non-receptacle outlets".

 

[kwired]

Well then, there is no point to 210.21(B)(1). A simplex (single) receptacle always has to be connected to an outlet. If you can count this as 2, then you can always invoke 210.21(B)(3) and put a 15A simplex on a 20A circuit...???


The "two or more receptacles or outlets" should read "two or more receptacles or non-receptacle outlets".

Doesn't the use of the words "receptacles or outlets" mean "receptacles or non-receptacle outlets"?

Doesn't art 100 already define what a receptacle is and what an outlet is when those words are used within the rest of the code?

It could also easily say "receptacles or other outlets", or even just "outlets"

 

[Smart $]

Doesn't the use of the words "receptacles or outlets" mean "receptacles or non-receptacle outlets"?

Doesn't art 100 already define what a receptacle is and what an outlet is when those words are used within the rest of the code?

It could also easily say "receptacles or other outlets", or even just "outlets"

In short, yes... IMO. But I feel other are construing the requirement for this issue. If you have 1G box with the device of topic installed, I feel it can be counted as one receptacle or one outlet... but not both (or 2) for the purpose of 210.21(B)(3).

 

[kwired]

In short, yes... IMO. But I feel other are construing the requirement for this issue. If you have 1G box with the device of topic installed, I feel it can be counted as one receptacle or one outlet... but not both (or 2) for the purpose of 210.21(B)(3).

Is a combination device containing a switch and a receptacle a switch, an outlet, or both?

 

[Smart $]

Is a combination device containing a switch and a receptacle a switch, an outlet, or both?

A receptacle is a contact device which provides for quick and-or easy connection and disconnection to-from the outlet, but the device itself is not, per se, the outlet. A common misconception.

So to answer your question, it is a switch and a receptacle on a common yoke. It gets installed in an outlet, and only the receptacle would make it an outlet. A box containing only switches is not an outlet.

 

[kwired]

A receptacle is a contact device which provides for quick and-or easy connection and disconnection to-from the outlet, but the device itself is not, per se, the outlet. A common misconception.

So to answer your question, it is a switch and a receptacle on a common yoke. It gets installed in an outlet, and only the receptacle would make it an outlet. A box containing only switches is not an outlet.

Fully understood. What is a single USB port on a single yoke? Can it be installed on a small appliance branch circuit? I say it is or is connected to an "outlet" but is not a receptacle outlet either.

 

[Mgraw]

This is from Leviton

"The 2.1 Amp USB outlets on this USB Charger/Tamper Resistant Outlet are
optimized for use with certain types of devices....."

Would that mean two outlets and a receptacle?

 

[K8MHZ]

This is from Leviton

"The 2.1 Amp USB outlets on this USB Charger/Tamper Resistant Outlet are
optimized for use with certain types of devices....."

Would that mean two outlets and a receptacle?

The way I read the NEC, this would be three receptacles in one outlet.

Each USP charging port is a receptacle, and of course the 120 volt receptacle.

If you can plug three plugs into the outlet, there has to be three receptacles.

 

[Smart $]

... What is a single USB port on a single yoke?

With its associated electronics, a utilization device (equipment).

Can it be installed on a small appliance branch circuit?

IMO, not by itself... whereas the OP combo device should be compliant.

I say it is or is connected to an "outlet" but is not a receptacle outlet either.

If just a USB Charger, and no 120V receptacle, I agree.

 

[Smart $]

The way I read the NEC, this would be three receptacles in one outlet.

Each USP charging port is a receptacle, and of course the 120 volt receptacle.

If you can plug three plugs into the outlet, there has to be three receptacles.

IMO, red is wrong.

One outlet. One receptacle. One utilization device.

 

[K8MHZ]

IMO, red is wrong.

One outlet. One receptacle. One utilization device.

From the NEC:

Receptacle: A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke.

So, would you agree that this would be a 'multiple receptacle'? Or do you think the USB transformers (all that is there is the power supply) with nothing plugged into them are utilization devices? Even if they are, there still exists a total of three separate contact devices for the connection of an attachment plug all on a single yoke.

Edit to add: How many receptacles are on the device in my avatar picture?

 

[Smart $]

So, would you agree that this would be a 'multiple receptacle'?

No.

Or do you think the USB transformers (all that is there is the power supply) with nothing plugged into them are utilization devices?

Yes.

Even if they are, there still exists a total of three separate contact devices for the connection of an attachment plug all on a single yoke.

Are you really going to stretch the receptacle definition to this degree???

If you are, I'll let someone else muster a response

Edit to add: How many receptacles are on the device in my avatar picture?

Four.

 

[K8MHZ]

Are you really going to stretch the receptacle definition to this degree???

It's not my definition. This is right out of the book: "A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug."

Attachment Plug: A device that, by insertion into a receptacle, establishes a connection between the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the conductors connected permanently to the receptacle.

Actually, there is nothing USB about the device. There is no bus connection. It's a 5 volt DC power supply with two contact devices installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug.

I'm not making this stuff up.

 

[Smart $]

It's not my definition. This is right out of the book: "A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug."

Attachment Plug: A device that, by insertion into a receptacle, establishes a connection between the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the conductors connected permanently to the receptacle.

Actually, there is nothing USB about the device. There is no bus connection. It's a 5 volt DC power supply with two contact devices installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug.

I'm not making this stuff up.

I know you're not... I just don't want to be dealing with this. Perhaps I can short circuit it real quick. What is the rating of the USB "jacks" you are calling receptacles? One of the earlier posts said 2.1A. There you go... not qualified to be on the circuit.

 

[K8MHZ]

I know you're not... I just don't want to be dealing with this. Perhaps I can short circuit it real quick. What is the rating of the USB "jacks" you are calling receptacles? One of the earlier posts said 2.1A. There you go... not qualified to be on the circuit.

I went to the P&S website and looked at the specs. They are rated at 15 or 20 amps, depending on the model. 2.1 amps is the charging capacity.

The brochure showed some interesting variations. 4 USB recept. and no 120v. and 2 USB recepts. and a switch on the same yoke.

I think this is something the NEC needs to address as I don't believe these were around when the rule was written. They (NEC folk) probably meant 120 VAC receptacles and since that was all there really was at the time, it was left 'unsaid'. Now with the intro of 5VDC devices, there needs to be some clarification as the NEC defines the 5VDC 'ports' or 'jacks' or whatever pseudonym you choose to be 'receptacles'.

 

[K8MHZ]

P&S calls them 'outlets'.

Two USB ?A? style
charging outlets plus
a 15-amp TR receptacle

 

[Smart $]

I went to the P&S website and looked at the specs. They are rated at 15 or 20 amps, depending on the model. 2.1 amps is the charging capacity.

The brochure showed some interesting variations. 4 USB recept. and no 120v. and 2 USB recepts. and a switch on the same yoke.

I think this is something the NEC needs to address as I don't believe these were around when the rule was written. They (NEC folk) probably meant 120 VAC receptacles and since that was all there really was at the time, it was left 'unsaid'. Now with the intro of 5VDC devices, there needs to be some clarification as the NEC defines the 5VDC 'ports' or 'jacks' or whatever pseudonym you choose to be 'receptacles'.

That's what really needs to happen. In the meantime, I say ignore them. Consider the yoke as whatever 120V device is on it.

P&S calls them 'outlets'.

Manufacturers are not required to use NEC-only terminology.