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It is not a matter of why would you but rather could you. It's a mind game to search for an answer. In reality it may never come up as a problem.
USB Receptacle
- Thread starter Dennis Alwon
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If the USB charging circuitry inside this device is using current then it is not another receptacle, it is utilization equipment.
A piece of utilization equipment that is then supplying (2) more outlets. (USB outlets).
At some point we have to draw the line between Outlets and Utilization equipment.
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It's not a question of it being on any 20a Circuit.
The question is, can it be installed on a "Dedicated" 20 Amp circuit.
On a dedicated 20 Amp Circuit, this receptacle would need to be 20a Rated and be the only thing thats being fed by it.
If there's more than 1 outlet on a 20a circuit then it's no longer "Dedicated" and it would be ok for the receptacle to be 15a rated.
We're trying to figure out how many Outlets there actually are on this device.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
The circuitry that converts the 120 VAC to 5 VDC is not in question. Agreed, the charging circuitry is not a receptacle. The part that the plug goes into is. That part connects the plug to the charging circuitry which is permanently attached to the device (USB receptacle).
Edit to add:
Here is a pic of the part that is considered the receptacle.
I posted it before. It is not utilization equipment.
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K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
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- Chapel Hill, NC
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- Retired Electrical Contractor
The switch is not an outlet
K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
What about the rest of it? The part that supplies 2.1 amps of DC current?
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Just could not resist logic chopping a bit more (and thanks to K8MHZ for the reminder to be careful about outlet versus receptacle). If nobody cares about it here, we can continue this on the Puzzles and Illusions thread.
Is the USB connector a device in and of itself? If not, does the device include the USB connector, the power supply and the yoke and 120 volt receptacle, or just some subset of these? It is sold as a single inseparable assembly.
If the device is the power supply plus USB connector, I would still argue that the USB connector is not a receptacle in the NEC sense because it does not interconnect its wires with external wires attached to the device. It connects only to components in the power supply which is contained in the device.
If you consider the device to be just the USB connector then it is not installed at a point on the wiring system where current is taken to supply utilization equipment. It just takes current from the power supply, which is connected to the wiring system but is not a point on the wiring system.
In any case, we do not have any good guidance that I can see as to how many devices are actually part of the assembly. And in particular as to whether a part of a device can be a device in its own right.
I do not declare victory, but I think I have reached the limits of my interest in this subject.
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K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
Is this an outlet?
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- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
What is behind the curtain?
K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
There is a one in three chance it will be a new Corvette.
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- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
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- Retired Electrical Contractor
If we wanted to get techincal with the wording the statement made above is not correct either.
A receptacle neither supplies current nor uses it,,,,, it distributes it,,,,, the power source supplies current and a load uses it.
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kwired
Electron manager
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- NE Nebraska
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- EC
Maybe you could put one on a 50 amp circuit
The combination device like shown in the OP is acceptable in most places where a 210.52 outlet is required - because there is still a 15 amp 120 volt receptacle, where there may be a problem is in cases where only 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacles are generally all that is allowed on the circuit like maybe a SABC.
Yes. I would even call it a multiplex outlet.Is this an outlet?
What it is not is a 120 volt receptacle outlet, even though it may have 120 volt supply.
Agreed,
The only thing that would happen if you were to put this 15a receptacle, on a 20a Dedicated circuit, which you could if you consider it as 3 outlets, would be that you would no longer have a "Dedicated" circuit.
May be the intent of the code to ban putting a single 15 A receptacle on a 20A circuit is to avoid any resultant fire hazard and whether a single 15A USB receptacle on 20A circuit would be safe to use or not may be established by continued usage.
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You guys are still using the term outlet errantly.
The following depicts an outlet, provided when it's installation is complete it either houses a receptacle device or utilization equipment gets hardwired to it. If it houses only a switch, it will not be an outlet. If a duplex receptacle device gets installed, it will still be just one outlet.
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Excuse me, Smart $, but is it correct that during testing (insulation testing ?)of an electrical installation, switches are also counted as 'outlets'?You guys are still using the term outlet errantly.
The following depicts an outlet, provided when it's installation is complete it either houses a receptacle device or utilization equipment gets hardwired to it. If it houses only a switch, it will not be an outlet. If a duplex receptacle device gets installed, it will still be just one outlet.
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- Chapel Hill, NC
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- Retired Electrical Contractor
That does not matter as the definition of outlet in the NEC does not include a switch. The light or equipment that the switch controls would be an outlet.
You guys are still using the term outlet errantly.
The following depicts an outlet, provided when it's installation is complete it either houses a receptacle device or utilization equipment gets hardwired to it. If it houses only a switch, it will not be an outlet. If a duplex receptacle device gets installed, it will still be just one outlet.
If one were to consider a Duplex Receptacle a Single Outlet?
Could he also then consider a Simplex Receptacle Nothing?
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