Wash Stall in a Barn

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mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
If I was the horse I'd ask Santa for a water heater!

As to what type of heater for the room, I'd put safety first. Assuming the traditional wood barn and straw/ hay it's a tinderbox, but you did say wash room. Then you need to know how many BTU's you want. Assuming zero insulation, you're going to need a quite oversized system to generate any noticable comfort for the horse and the person doing the washing. Also not sure what latitude you're at; how cold does it get there?
 
AllCircuitsElectrical

AllCircuitsElectrical

Member
Location
S.E. PA
very upscale place ... New stand alone 1 Million $$ Indoor ring with automatic sprinklers to keep dust down ... heated observation on seconded floor, laundry room, etc ..plus 3 barns, one is brand new, all tack rooms are heated.


the Main barn seperate building ..and then this side of the barn is actually an addition ..all walls and ceilings are covered.. and there is hot water already .. we talkin 50K and up horses LOL no cold huff's

and SE PA ....
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Frankly I was thinking of Radiant ceiling heating but because your ceiling is so low, gas or electrical might be out.and or either get other types of convection heating installed in ceiling, walls or floor.

I don't think an industrial guage blower is the answer, while horses might be expensive, they are complete
rocks, and can be spooked easy, by unconvertional noises and if stuck around loud noises.

You really need a different kind of consult, I don't think there's that many Horse pep's here.


 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
cadpoint said:
Frankly I was thinking of Radiant ceiling heating but because your ceiling is so low, gas or electrical might be out.and or either get other types of convection heating installed in ceiling, walls or floor.

I don't think an industrial guage blower is the answer, while horses might be expensive, they are complete
rocks, and can be spooked easy, by unconvertional noises and if stuck around loud noises.

You really need a different kind of consult, I don't think there's that many Horse pep's here.
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I've never seen any kind of blower in a wash stall. Drafts are generally not a good thing to subject a wet horse to. The better wash stalls I've seen have IR radiant heaters mounted either side of the wash stall to keep the animal's surface warm once the warm water stops and the drying off starts.
 
AllCircuitsElectrical

AllCircuitsElectrical

Member
Location
S.E. PA
just so you know all the stalls get fans in the summer ....the cheaps ones that are about 30" x 30" ... I am more looking for help along the water thing ...there is not a whole lot of splashing, there is one opening ..
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Radiant in floor heat is probably the best thing you will find for this application. Will require breaking out concrete if it is already existing though. I would recommend a system that circulates hot water and not an encased heating element in the floor in this kind of application. The heat source can still be just about anything, gas, electric, heat pump, solar, ... all you do is circulate the water once it is heated.

Otherwise next best thing is some other kind of radiant heat as already mentioned by others.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
This seems like something outside of what an EC would usually be supplying. I think we are into the realm of space heating. It probably should be handled by an HVAC contractor. How are you going to pull a permit as an EC to do HVAC work?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
petersonra said:
This seems like something outside of what an EC would usually be supplying. I think we are into the realm of space heating. It probably should be handled by an HVAC contractor. How are you going to pull a permit as an EC to do HVAC work?
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I'm not, still doesn't mean it may not be the best thing to install, even if it means less $$ in my pocket, the owner may like me being honest with them on what is best for them. Now if they don't want to remove an existing floor then the next best option may still require an HVAC guy and not so much from an electrician.
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
For those of you suggesting radiant floor heat, what kind of floors are you usually seeing in wash stalls? Around here, they tend to be rubber matts, rubber pavers or some other kind of soft surface in which radiant floor heat wouldn't work at all. I'm also wondering if in other parts of the country wash stalls are completely enclosed that the idea of ducted HVAC is coming up at all? Every wash stall I've ever seen was open on at least one end and any kind of ducted HVAC would have to do the entire barn.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
PetrosA said:
For those of you suggesting radiant floor heat, what kind of floors are you usually seeing in wash stalls? Around here, they tend to be rubber matts, rubber pavers or some other kind of soft surface in which radiant floor heat wouldn't work at all. I'm also wondering if in other parts of the country wash stalls are completely enclosed that the idea of ducted HVAC is coming up at all? Every wash stall I've ever seen was open on at least one end and any kind of ducted HVAC would have to do the entire barn.
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Why will a rubber mat keep it from working?

I have seen radiant heat in concrete floors with carpet, vinyl, wood - you name it over the top and it still heats the space. That heat is going to rise no matter what, just may rise at a slower rate if covered with poor heat conductors. Cover a radiant heat system in a wall or ceiling with insulating materials though and you get less desirable results.

The radiant heat in the floor in an area like in the OP has other desirable results. The floor will dry faster, because it dries faster there may be less bacterial growth on the floor surface and possible better overall animal health. There is more to consider than just what the HVAC guy or electrician will cost. You need to know your clients needs when making such suggestions.
 
AllCircuitsElectrical

AllCircuitsElectrical

Member
Location
S.E. PA
good points here and there ..

HVAC is not any option ...as it would need to be electric. no flame source in the barn ...

the rubber mats are about 1" thick .

next figure that the use would be short 15/30 mins ... so fast warm up...


I called about the unit today .. $1800.00 there is newer model number both come with 24v transformer so you can use whatever to operate it ...I would recommend a twist timer .. 30 min max ..

then i figured ok i'll google it and see if i can get better price ...LOL 2500 to 3500 elsewhere ...
 
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PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
kwired said:
Why will a rubber mat keep it from working?

I have seen radiant heat in concrete floors with carpet, vinyl, wood - you name it over the top and it still heats the space. That heat is going to rise no matter what, just may rise at a slower rate if covered with poor heat conductors. Cover a radiant heat system in a wall or ceiling with insulating materials though and you get less desirable results.

The radiant heat in the floor in an area like in the OP has other desirable results. The floor will dry faster, because it dries faster there may be less bacterial growth on the floor surface and possible better overall animal health. There is more to consider than just what the HVAC guy or electrician will cost. You need to know your clients needs when making such suggestions.
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Radiant floor heat would probably work if left on all the time, but it would cost a fortune to run, and you don't want to heat the whole barn above about 65 degrees when it's cold out. Radiant heaters work much better for drying horses the few times per winter they get washed in my experience.

AllCircuitsElectrical said:
good points here and there ..

HVAC is not any option ...as it would need to be electric. no flame source in the barn ...

the rubber mats are about 1" thick .

next figure that the use would be short 15/30 mins ... so fast warm up...


I called about the unit today .. $1800.00 there is newer model number both come with 24v transformer so you can use whatever to operate it ...I would recommend a twist timer .. 30 min max ..

then i figured ok i'll google it and see if i can get better price ...LOL 2500 to 3500 elsewhere ...
Click to expand...

Not sure what brand you looked at but Kalglo is one of the big names you see a lot in upscale barns around here. Maybe because they're local?

http://www.kalglo.com/horsehtr.htm
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
PetrosA said:
Radiant floor heat would probably work if left on all the time, but it would cost a fortune to run, and you don't want to heat the whole barn above about 65 degrees when it's cold out. Radiant heaters work much better for drying horses the few times per winter they get washed in my experience.
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Well now that we have more info radiant floor heat is probably not what is desired.

Why would it cost a fortune to run? Compared to other sources it usually makes the space feel comfortable at lower temperatures and actually costs less to run. If it were my barn and was starting from scratch I would still consider it as primary heat for the entire building - or at least spaces to be heated. Could possibly have a separate zone for the wash stalls set at a different temperature if that would work better. As far as drying a horse after washing it is likely to use a forced air dryer whether fixed or hand held to help speed up the process. Now maybe an aux overhead radiant heater adds to comfort during washing, but these animals even if pampered are tougher than many people are and can take a little coolness when being washed, and if you use warm water to wash probably is no big deal at all. If you want the wash stalls to be warmer than the rest of the barn by all means make them a separate room if you are concerned about the cost of heating the space, but from what I understand the heating costs are probably not much of a concern.
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
kwired said:
Well now that we have more info radiant floor heat is probably not what is desired.

Why would it cost a fortune to run? Compared to other sources it usually makes the space feel comfortable at lower temperatures and actually costs less to run. If it were my barn and was starting from scratch I would still consider it as primary heat for the entire building - or at least spaces to be heated. Could possibly have a separate zone for the wash stalls set at a different temperature if that would work better. As far as drying a horse after washing it is likely to use a forced air dryer whether fixed or hand held to help speed up the process. Now maybe an aux overhead radiant heater adds to comfort during washing, but these animals even if pampered are tougher than many people are and can take a little coolness when being washed, and if you use warm water to wash probably is no big deal at all. If you want the wash stalls to be warmer than the rest of the barn by all means make them a separate room if you are concerned about the cost of heating the space, but from what I understand the heating costs are probably not much of a concern.
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Just a napkin calculation, but I'd think you'd need about 1200W-1600W of radiant floor heat to feebly heat a wash stall area in an unheated barn and it would probably have to run for a few hours to raise the temp in the stall to a comfortable level for the handlers ;). You're right though, the horses can probably handle the temperatures just fine (even if the soap in the water takes it down to the skin) and towel drying and a blanket are probably all they really need.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
PetrosA said:
Just a napkin calculation, but I'd think you'd need about 1200W-1600W of radiant floor heat to feebly heat a wash stall area in an unheated barn and it would probably have to run for a few hours to raise the temp in the stall to a comfortable level for the handlers ;). You're right though, the horses can probably handle the temperatures just fine (even if the soap in the water takes it down to the skin) and towel drying and a blanket are probably all they really need.
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Every in floor radiant heater I have ever seen runs a long cycle when floor is cold. Once floor is up to temperature though the cycles are usually very short in duration, and there is usually a pretty long interval between cycles.

But if they only want to heat this area for short periods this is probably not the way to do it, but if they want to maintain a temperature pretty much all the time it would be a great method, and they probably would find it does not require any supplemental heat in this specific area like other heating systems may.
 
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