Wasting thousands of tax payer dollars, one Massachusetts public school has not turned off the lights for over a year and a half

[kwired]

The post office paid $1.1 billion for 99,150 first-generation Long-Life Vehicles during their 1987-1994 production run, many of which are still in service. $11,094 each, including one-time design, development & tooling costs. Being purpose-built vehicles, they incorporated features not readily available in off-the-shelf models, including a rust-free aluminum body, right-hand drive, and an unusually tight turning radius.
(in fairness, it wasn't all unicorns and rainbows; they ended up with a gas hog ill-suited for their frequent stop & go operations)

The Post Office Is Getting a New Truck, and Here’s One of the Prototypes

The generic-faced van you see here is one of six prototype delivery vehicles meant to take the U.S. Postal Service into the modern era. Read more at Car and Driver.

www.caranddriver.com

In 2008, they purchased a number of off-the-shelf of Dodge Grand Caravan and Chevrolet Uplander minivans. I'm sure their operational experience factored into their decision to launch a second-generation Long-Life Vehicle program.

The 2021 2G LLV contract seems to be up to $6 billion for 165,000 of the vehicles over 10 years. $36,363 each, including (?) an initial $482,000 for design, development, and tooling.

Oshkosh Defense to build next-generation U.S. Postal delivery vehicles

The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) said on Tuesday it will award a multibillion-dollar, 10-year contract to Oshkosh Defense to manufacture a new generation of postal delivery vehicles. Under the initial $482 million investment, Oshkosh Defense, a unit of Oshkosh Corp, will finalize the production...

finance.yahoo.com

And unless they happened to be able to get European marketed models with driver on the right side, was probably not a great thing for this use from the start.

 

[jim dungar]

I recall some controversy that Oshkosh didn't actually have a vehicle prototype and fudged it to get the contract.

P. S.
Found something on that.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/12/1015371368/company-that-wasnt-picked-to-make-mail-trucks-is-suing-the-u-s-postal-service

There were lots of negative stories floating around once Oshkosh decided to build these vehicles in South Carolina instead of Wisconsin.

Right now I think the issue is h I w many will be EV vs ICE. Evidently the EV range won't work in areas like Montana and the Dakotas where 300 mile routes may be possible.

 

[gadfly56]

There were lots of negative stories floating around once Oshkosh decided to build these vehicles in South Carolina instead of Wisconsin.

Right now I think the issue is h I w many will be EV vs ICE. Evidently the EV range won't work in areas like Montana and the Dakotas where 300 mile routes may be possible.

If the "green" label is so important, why not go with hybrid power plants?

 

[ggunn]

If the "green" label is so important, why not go with hybrid power plants?

Electric power plants! Brilliant!

 

[kwired]

There were lots of negative stories floating around once Oshkosh decided to build these vehicles in South Carolina instead of Wisconsin.

Right now I think the issue is h I w many will be EV vs ICE. Evidently the EV range won't work in areas like Montana and the Dakotas where 300 mile routes may be possible.

Can one even do a 300 mile route in a normal 8 hour work day? Consider that if the population density is that low, some the roads you will be taking will not be the greatest so you won't necessarily be driving ~60 mph most the way either. And if the population is more dense, you will have enough stops that you are not too likely to go 300 miles in a day.

UPS and Fedex drivers that come to my place maybe put on at least 150 miles maybe even 200+ a day. But they are driving maybe 20 or 30 miles before making the first delivery as they don't have a base in every town like USPS mostly does. And ultimately at the end of the day they might be driving 20 to 30 miles back after making that last delivery of the day.

 

[drcampbell]

... Right now I think the issue is how many will be EV vs ICE. Evidently the EV range won't work in areas like Montana and the Dakotas where 300 mile routes may be possible.

The bigger issue was that Louis DeJoy was refusing to buy any EVs, even though they're perfectly-well suited to 90-plus% of postal routes, and that he has a personal conflict of interest.
(and that Louis DeJoy is still there at all)

If the "green" label is so important, why not go with hybrid power plants?

Maybe because performance is more important than labeling, and because the post office doesn't operate any powerplants?

 

[retirede]

Can one even do a 300 mile route in a normal 8 hour work day? Consider that if the population density is that low, some the roads you will be taking will not be the greatest so you won't necessarily be driving ~60 mph most the way either. And if the population is more dense, you will have enough stops that you are not too likely to go 300 miles in a day.

UPS and Fedex drivers that come to my place maybe put on at least 150 miles maybe even 200+ a day. But they are driving maybe 20 or 30 miles before making the first delivery as they don't have a base in every town like USPS mostly does. And ultimately at the end of the day they might be driving 20 to 30 miles back after making that last delivery of the day.

Around here, the longest routes are the rural routes and they’re all served by private contractors who provide their own vehicles. I doubt many drive over 100 miles per day.

 

[kwired]

Around here, the longest routes are the rural routes and they’re all served by private contractors who provide their own vehicles. I doubt many drive over 100 miles per day.

Same here. My wife was a part time (substitute basically) rural carrier at one time. Route was probably only 70 miles at the most, but could see some longer routes if one were farther west in Nebraska, but in those cases you would average more distance between stops. And some the roads not suitable for driving all that fast, at least not at all times.

 

[gadfly56]

The bigger issue was that Louis DeJoy was refusing to buy any EVs, even though they're perfectly-well suited to 90-plus% of postal routes, and that he has a personal conflict of interest.
(and that Louis DeJoy is still there at all)



Maybe because performance is more important than labeling, and because the post office doesn't operate any powerplants?

You know, power plant, as in something that provides energy, not necessarily owned by the POCO. An ICE is a power plant, so is a portable generator.

 

[Frank DuVal]

"Don't leave your car's ignition key turned on for extended periods of time without running the engine; it'll burn out the ignition points."

Is very much a true statement! Of course, it applies only to cars with ignition points. Nothing out of Detroit since 1974 ... And one of the Pertronix models too. Well, burn out the Pertronix module.

 

[drcampbell]

You know, power plant, as in something that provides energy, not necessarily owned by the POCO. An ICE is a power plant, so is a portable generator.

Apologies for the semantic slipup. I'm much more accustomed to the machinery in a motor vehicle being referred to as a powertrain, not a powerplant.

 

[drcampbell]

If the "green" label is so important, why not go with hybrid power plants?

In the case of the post office, because 95-plus per cent of their routes can be serviced with a pure-electric vehicle, all their vehicles come "home" and park in a fixed location at night, and the maintenance & "fuel" costs of a pure electric are far lower than something with both a battery pack and an infernal-combustion engine.

And because labeling is a lot less important than performance.

 

[drcampbell]

Is very much a true statement! Of course, it applies only to cars with ignition points. Nothing out of Detroit since 1974 ... And one of the Pertronix models too. Well, burn out the Pertronix module.

When was the last time a Pertronix module was installed into a new car on the assembly line? 1989?

As for popular "wisdom" outliving the reality it once applied to, I rest my case. ("220 volts, 221, whatever it takes", anybody?)

 

[gadfly56]

In the case of the post office, because 95-plus per cent of their routes can be serviced with a pure-electric vehicle, all their vehicles come "home" and park in a fixed location at night, and the maintenance & "fuel" costs of a pure electric are far lower than something with both a battery pack and an infernal-combustion engine.

And because labeling is a lot less important than performance.

If that's the case, why are 90% of the vehicles slated to be fossil fuel powered?

 

[drcampbell]

If the "green" label is so important, why not go with hybrid power plants?

In the case of the post office, because 95-plus per cent of their routes can be serviced with a pure-electric vehicle, all their vehicles come "home" and park in a fixed location at night, and the maintenance & "fuel" costs of a pure electric are far lower than something with both a battery pack and an infernal-combustion engine.

And because labeling is a lot less important than performance.

The best approach might be for all the second-generation Long-Life Vehicles to be pure electric, all with common everything, (including/especially service manuals, parts inventories, and techniques) and for a few of the first-generation Long-Life Vehicles to be completely refurbished. A gasoline engine won't be a big penalty on the longer rural routes with higher speeds and less idling time, and the lack of air conditioning (which could be retrofitted during a complete refurbishment) won't be a big penalty in the Frigid North where batteries might not be the best alternative.

 

[drcampbell]

If that's the case, why are 90% of the vehicles slated to be fossil fuel powered?

Because Louis DeJoy is making the decision, and he's favoring his own personal conflicts of interest?
Because they're making the decision by looking back instead of forward?
I don't know. I don't have a good explanation -- or any inside information.

 

[jim dungar]

IIf that's the case, why are 90% of the vehicles slated to be fossil fuel powered?

Last I heard, the first release will be 80% ICE and 20% EV.

I wonder if the decision was partly based on the cost to add EV infrastructure to the overtime parking facilities?

 

[Smart Electrons]

I'm sure Massachusetts is a completely different story, but in some parts of the country it wouldn't make much difference. A nearby high school here in the northern Rockies heats with electricity. Heat is needed for nearly the entire school year. So all of the interior ones would really be as efficient as the electric heat, since it is all converted to heat, either waste heat or absorbed light. The exterior lighting would be completely wasted energy though.

 

[garbo]

MSN

1.2 million to switch 7000 lights. That $171 per light. Just crazy. Time to get competitive bids to replace the system.

Not a big fan of so called automated lighting systems. The !ast three that I worked on were huge waste of money. First one about 9 years old and no longer can get replacement boards or support. Second one was in a 12 story building that had problems for the 10 years that it was there. Had to spend an arm & a leg to fly a tech in from Canada to troubleshoot it. Third system was in another 12 story building.. Took them over six months to program probably 6 KW of outdoor lightning that was on 24/7. At least once a week lights in huge lobby luminaries either came on 30 to 100 minutes late and sometimes not at all .Would rather go with several quality seven day timers and save tens of thousands of dollars . Good luck attempting to secure almost any electronics made more then 8 years ago. Had to throw out several 40 to 200 HP VFD'S that were over 8 years old due to vendor no longer supplying replacement boards. Only thing they sold for the older drives were touch screen ( Danfoss calls them LCP = local control panel ) and cooling fans.

 

[mtnelect]

With old florescent fixtures, that would be true to an extent, energy restarting the arc would use substantial power on startup, so turning off and on frequently in short periods of time would use more energy than leaving the fixtures on.

Los Angeles Water & Power building for many years left their florescent lights on for the same reason until they had to turn them off at night from too many public complaints.