tom2shus
New member
- Location
- alsip, illinois
If a water service is "cut off" outside of the building, will the remaining underground empty water pipe (more than 10' long) still be considered the "water service ground"?
If a water service is "cut off" outside of the building, will the remaining underground empty water pipe (more than 10' long) still be considered the "water service ground"?
If a water service is "cut off" outside of the building, will the remaining underground empty water pipe (more than 10' long) still be considered the "water service ground"?
If a water service is "cut off" outside of the building, will the remaining underground empty water pipe (more than 10' long) still be considered the "water service ground"?
If the metal underground water pipe changes to nonmetallic pipe before it enters the building, then the metal pipe is not "present at the building or structure". If the metal pipe is not present at teh building or structure, it is not a required grounding electrode....Should there be 10 feet of metal water pipe in contact with earth installed at a building but the pipe changes over to a nonmetallic pipe before entering the building that metal water pipe must be used as part of the grounding electrode system.
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If the metal underground water pipe changes to nonmetallic pipe before it enters the building, then the metal pipe is not "present at the building or structure". If the metal pipe is not present at teh building or structure, it is not a required grounding electrode.
So he's saying that this is now an abandoned water pipe? If it's abandoned is it still a water pipe electrode?
I just don't see a water pipe that stops outside of the building as being present at the building.Nowhere does it say that the pipe has to enter the building just be present at the buiding. Such things as ground rings, concrete encased electrodes, rod, pipe or plate electrodes don't enter the building either.
I just don't see a water pipe that stops outside of the building as being present at the building.
I read the words present as requiring the pipe to enter the building or be a part of the building...not stop somewhere inside the property line. The rod, pipe or plate electrodes are not electrodes that would be "present at the building or structure". They are made or installed electrodes. The re-bar used as a concrete encased electrode is part of the building and is present at the building.
Mike,Your statement contradicts itself. 250.50 explains it.
250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these grounding electrodes exist, one or more of the grounding electrodes specified in 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8) shall be installed and used.
It describes all the electrodes outlined in250.52 (A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building and does not split them into any type or one being part or not part of the building.
A metal well casing is not inside the building but if properly bonded is to be used as an electrode.
Another way of looking at this would be, is it required to land the grounding electrode conductor on the interior of a building or could the grounding electrode land underground outside of the building when a metal water pipe is being used. I have installed the grounding electrode outside a building that had metal water pipes where the plumbing code allowed the main shutoff valve to be installed in a box outside and from that point to the driven rod. From the shutoff valve entering the building would be nonmetallic pipes.
A metal well casing is not inside the building but if properly bonded is to be used as an electrode.
250.52 Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.
250.50 requires that where any of the electrodes outlined in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) are present they MUST be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system(C) Metallic Water Pipe and Structural Metal. Grounding electrode conductors and bonding jumpers shall be permitted to be connected at the following locations and used to extend the connection to an electrode(s):
- Interior metal water piping located not more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall be permitted to be used as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
250.50 Grounding Electrode System.
All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these grounding electrodes exist, one or more of the grounding electrodes specified in 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8) shall be installed and used.
Again the metal water pipe does not have to enter the building to be used. If it is 10 feet or more in contact with earth it is to be used no matter if it eneters the building or not.
Mike, this ranks as one of the most ridiculous positions you have taken.
Enjoy your fun with words, luckily most inspectors are better than that.
By your interpretation I have to connect to every metal water pipe in the world.
Mike,No Bob just the ones that are present at the building that have 10 or more feet in contact with earth. It does not say metal water pipes that enter the building but it does say those that are present at the building. ...