Well that was depre$$ing

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peter d said:
CHW,

When I say these things, I am speaking in extreme generalities and nothing is aimed directly at one person, unless I actually say so. If that's the case at the company you're at, then great. :)
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This will be the last post in this thread for me. I'm not in business for myself and honestly this really isn't that important to me right now. I was using myself as an example to show that your generalities are not necessarily acurate (not just yours, others as well). Believe me, I want higher rates if it were beneficial, but I know that the competition is very high right now and it ain't gonna happen. The proven success of this company tells me you can be very profitable with the right management. I was surprised at first by what they charge but I'm starting to see more of the big picture now. We are still more expensive than many of the big shops around here. I'm way too inexperienced in business to be taken too serious and you won't see me making a stupid post telling someone he's going to go out of business because he's too low. I'm just saying the way I see it and my paychecks look pretty good. I'm out.
 
sometimes it is about survival. sometimes nothing you do can even insure survival - remember the buggy whip makers. even if they worked for free, no one will buy them anymore.
 
petersonra said:
remember the buggy whip makers. even if they worked for free, no one will buy them anymore.
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Yeah the home ice delivery business has kind of slowed down as well. :grin:

I just don't think we are expecting electrical work to go that way anytime soon. :smile:
 
powerslave said:
Wow. All I said was that it was too low for my area. You obviously have no business training. It's called a billable hour. Ask the billing department at your place of work. You may be surprised. If you think that an EC is going to turn a screwdriver for forty hours a week and put in no other time you are way off. I really don't know how else to respond to this post except for....Wow.

And if you are frustrated because we won't give up our billable hourly rate, don't go right to the insults. It comes across as childish.;)

You're an engineer. You can show better class than that.
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It is not all about you.

I assure you there are no surprises where my rates are concerned. I really don't care if you (or anyone else for that matter) posts rates or not as it has nothing to do with my rate. No bearing whatsoever.

There are some EC's who bill only for the time spent at a customer site and forget about true billable hours. No insults, just the truth. Read emahler's post #83 about billable hours as it makes good sense.

There are some EC's who have too much wasted time and can't figure out why ends won't meet. This is the other side of accounting for non-billable hours. If you have calculated a certain amount of billable hours and can't get there, you have either underestimated, or are suffering from a lack of productivity. No insults, just the truth.

As emahler also pointed out, you can't just compare a quoted rate without knowing what is behind the number and how that number is used.

Now stop being so sensitive, insulting, and childish.:smile:
 
petersonra said:
sometimes it is about survival. sometimes nothing you do can even insure survival - remember the buggy whip makers. even if they worked for free, no one will buy them anymore.
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Same thing happened to ice picks.
 
powerslave said:
We use historical data to see how long a task should take and then use what we need to charge per billable hour to assign a price.
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just pointing out the fact that the rate is based on time. It should be and I believe in your system. It is still based on an hourly rate.
 
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Texhunter7 said:
I do not really understand why a person cannot mention sidework on here, if you care to explain.
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A) It is illegal in many areas for someone who is unlicenced, uninsured, etc.
B) A lot of the ECs here have to compete against people doing sidework for very low rates.
 
It (side work) really upsets legit contractors. They fell (justifiable so) that side workers are cutting corners and in some case competing unfairly. Makes it tough on some contractors.
 
Texhunter7 said:
I do not really understand why a person cannot mention sidework on here, if you care to explain.
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There really is no forum rule against side work posts here.

However many of the members who run full time electrical business do not have a lot of love for side jobbers.

One thing the forum would not allow is talk of how to get around the rules and laws.'

In some areas it is legal to side job in others it is not.
 
Some sidejobbers use other means to cover their overhead and make it tough for a regular EC who has to carry the full overhead to compete.

Other sidejobbers don't carry the full overhead required by a regular EC and also make it tough to compete.

I don't think there would be as much complaining if the playing field were level and someone just wanted to work for less but still cover all legitimate overhead. I think much of the frustration comes because a lot of sidejobbers avoid things like insurance, permits, taxes, etc and are "cheating" from the starting gate.
 
CHWflorida said:
You can't help but bicker when your livelihood is threatened by others who charge too little and upset the market. This affects me, in a way, as much as an EC, being that I'm employed by one. Of course, he has much more to lose. Unfortunately, my boss is only interested in seeing his company succeed, and if others are bankrupted, I guess that means a little more work for him. Now, all that said, I was just asking for going rates around the country (I doubt this is the first time it's been asked) and I revealed ours. It might seem low but we make money.
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I don't care how little someone charges they can not hurt my lively hood. They may end up working for someone because they ran them selves out of business, but my work and the work of my guys is what keeps the customers calling. Our business is about 86% referal and business is up 60% this year, and i haven't lowered prices I have been raising them.
 
O.k. i understand but i do have all of the above 100% covered . I personally will not compete with no one out there every thing i get is 100% referals and that is all. If it offends or upsets some one then i don,t know what to say. I am a person who just calls and see,s things the way they are.
 
Texhunter7 said:
O.k. i understand but i do have all of the above 100% covered . I personally will not compete with no one out there every thing i get is 100% referals and that is all. If it offends or upsets some one then i don,t know what to say. I am a person who just calls and see,s things the way they are.
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You say you do not compete with any one out here, but doing side work, no matter how you obtained the job, is still taking work away from those who are in the business of being ECs. It's not we're accusing you of taking customers directly away from your employer. It's the fact that you are doing side work that some here will take offense to.

The reason being, you can do side work without having many of the costs associated with a true business. Advertising, vehicle expenses, insurance, licensing/permits/bonds are all costs you may not need to bear to do side work, but full-blown EC must pay these things in order to operate.

So your boss sits in his office, needing to charge $100 an hour (because of his overhead) for each person in the field, and can't get any work lined up. The reason is the builders are hiring the guys doing side work (who have no overhead) for $30 an hour.
 
Texhunter7 said:
O.k. i understand but i do have all of the above 100% covered . I personally will not compete with no one out there every thing i get is 100% referals and that is all. If it offends or upsets some one then i don,t know what to say. I am a person who just calls and see,s things the way they are.
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If you have all of your costs covered, and are happy with what you make, then more power to you.

It never hurts to double-check items included in your benefit costs against what others are including. You might see something extra that you like and want for yourself.

[edit: I read 480's post and realized I was thinking more along the lines of what have been called trunk-slammers. 480 has a good point in that you should not bite the hand that feeds you. I would never do sidework that was the same as my full-time job without okaying it with the boss]
 
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480sparky said:
You say you do not compete with any one out here, but doing side work, no matter how you obtained the job, is still taking work away from those who are in the business of being ECs. It's not we're accusing you of taking customers directly away from your employer. It's the fact that you are doing side work that some here will take offense to.

The reason being, you can do side work without having many of the costs associated with a true business. Advertising, vehicle expenses, insurance, licensing/permits/bonds are all costs you may not need to bear to do side work, but full-blown EC must pay these things in order to operate.
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All that is of course true, but it always was long before we were alive. :smile: It is the way of things.

I am willing to bet that many of the large and successful full time ECs started first doing side jobs. In this area almost everyone side jobs at some time or another.
 
Man it sure don't take long to get thrown into a shark pit, but i guess thats life . Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like i said earlier in a post if it offended anyone then i don't know what to say.
 
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