What is wrong with you people??

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electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I have been in the trade for 20+ years and I can not remember one single requirement (TR receptacles) causing such an cryfest. The whining is unbelievable. Not only in this and other forums, but in the field as well.

It has gone beyond ridiculous. Coupled with AFCI requirements, there is one thread on there that more or less says if we didn't have these requirements we would be able to save Africa from hunger and cure aids.

Am I in the bizzarro forum? :confused: :confused:
 
Just for giggles I stopped at Lowes last night while doing some shopping...lo and behold they had combo AFCI's on the shelves. No TR receptacles yet but eventually they might get on the program. But all the supply houses have the TR stuff, and it's all very cheap, about $.65 more for a regular TR receptacle and $4 more for a TR GFCI receptacle.

What that tells me is that in time as this stuff gets more popular the price will drop even more, so the cost issue is actually a non-issue. I used to whine about this stuff myself but I've seen the light. :D TR receptacles and AFCI breakers (that hopefully work) are a good thing.
 
peter d said:
But all the supply houses have the TR stuff, and it's all very cheap, about $.65 more for a regular TR receptacle and $4 more for a TR GFCI receptacle.
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Well I was about to build a new 6500 sq ft home, but the extra $100.00 in devices put me over the top and now I will not build anything at all. :roll:
 
iwire said:
Well I was about to build a new 6500 sq ft home, but the extra $100.00 in devices put me over the top and now I will not build anything at all. :roll:
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:D :D :D

Yeah, that about sums up the foolishness of this argument.
 
iwire said:
Well I was about to build a new 6500 sq ft home, but the extra $100.00 in devices put me over the top and now I will not build anything at all. :roll:
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You should just charge a dollar an answer, i'm sure you could pay off your house is cash...:grin:
 
Thank you Scott and thank you Peter. Where was everyone getting this $5 a receptacle from? I believe someone mentioned that price in another thread.

I guess if ignorance is bliss, I'm one of the most blissful guys you'll ever meet.:smile:
 
cowboyjwc said:
Thank you Scott and thank you Peter. Where was everyone getting this $5 a receptacle from? I believe someone mentioned that price in another thread.

I guess if ignorance is bliss, I'm one of the most blissful guys you'll ever meet.:smile:
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i dont see the big deal either.i know a few ec that price their res. jobs by the square foot.with the added price they would have to actually do some figuering.
as for the tr recpts,i did a day care(many moons ago)that required them.at that time it was a special order item and ran about $14.00 each
 
stickboy1375 said:
You should just charge a dollar an answer, i'm sure you could pay off your house is cash...:grin:
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LMOL:grin::grin::grin: Well done stick. How about a nickle a post? Same result.

A good laugh after a long day! Thank you.
 
I'll be be the first to pick up the gauntlet. In terms of a cost factor I think that it is the initial shaock of having to pay more for these items than what is ingrained in peoples minds. Any time a new code like this comes down the road there are those who are either ignorant of it or are willing to ignore it so that skews the field not on the 6500 sf houses but on the " I need an outlet here and one here" kind of jobs. I know there are a hundred people about to write about not needing those customers or selling them on the safety etc but the reality is small jobs like this can keep people paid in between the larger ones so it's sometimes tough to let them go. In terms of selling the work just because someone is not a good electrician doesn't mean he can't sell the customer the other way with a golden tounge ( anyone ever been lied to by a drug user? They can sell sand to a camel when they want something). Over time I believe that this will all even out but do think that a possiblilty exists of some short term negative impact.

My biggest problem with these new requirements is the feeling of being lorded over. It feels just a bit too much like major industries creating a false need to sell a product. It feels like a further slip into the nanny state. I feel awful for the father that lost his child to lawn darts but is the correct reaction to that horrific accident to remove them from the market?

In terms of AFCI's have they been on the market long enough to come to any reasonabe statiscal conclusion as to there effectiveness? I don't know the answer and I'm no actuary but 3 years does not seem like long enough to collect the pertinent data.

Maybe I'm wrong about both of these items and certainly if it was my child who was saved by a TR recept I would be singing their praises but at what level does personal responsibilty come into play? It feels like a slippery slope. What about requiring all bulbs to have an inner coating that hold them together if the glass breaks? what about not allowing 120V in residences because of shock hazard? Dont' wood studs present a fire hazard? if some drives a picture hanger into romex they could get shocked so maybe we should go back to wiring houses with GRC?

Obviously I'm exaggerating on this but that is the overall feeling I get. I see my own personal trajectory on this is to whine about until summer (CO adopts the new code cycle in June) and then keep moving along as if it's always been there.

On a separate but related note, anyone out there have personal experience with combe AFCI's. They truly seem like an awful idea due to nuisance tripping but maybe they are worked out to the point concerns are unwarranted. When branch circuit AFCI' first hit the market I had an awful time wit nuisance tripping. They seem to be much more stable now though.
 
"We were born to mothers who smoked and drank, our cribs were covered in lead base paint, no child proof lids, no seat belts in cars, rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are"

There's always been the saying "you can't outlaw stupidity".

I wouldn't be as quick to go after the manufactures as I would the lawyers, the defenders of the stupid.

I believe that it's only here in CA, but I could be wrong, they have signs on the outside of buildings that read something to the effect "chemicals in this buiding have been known to cause cancer". Do you know what they're talking about? The White Out in the desks, the copier toner, the stuff used to clean the toilets, the glue in the carpet and what not.

I didn't hear any electricians whining when they required panic hardware on electric room doors so that they could get out in an emergency. Oh wait they didn't have to pay for those, the GC was forced to pay more because of an electrical code requirement.

See what you started Scott. : )

Ishium, are you anywhere near Littleton?
 
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cowboyjwc said:
"We were born to mothers who smoked and drank, our cribs were covered in lead base paint, no child proof lids, no seat belts in cars, rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are"

There's always been the saying "you can't outlaw stupidity".
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Great point! :smile:
 
ishium 80439 said:
... In terms of a cost factor I think that it is the initial shock of having to pay more for these items than what is ingrained in peoples minds.
...
My biggest problem with these new requirements is the feeling of being lorded over.
...
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These two things resonate with me as well. I was reminded today as I bought ballasts that I also needed a pack of those little luminaire disconnects that are required now. $1 each isn't terrible when it goes with a $33 ballast, but it's one more thing to keep around, and at least for a while I'll be thinking up numerous reasons that they're not really necessary. But my logical parts still say, gee, that makes sense.

I forgot to ask about TR receps and combination AFCIs since I don't have to worry about it anyway. I am curious to hear what the guys at the supply house would say though.

Jeremy
 
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