What is wrong with you people??

[cschmid]

how many of you have the knowledge of what is going on in the code cycles and how hard would it be to publish a list of proposals and allow us to have input..we are the one doing the work dealing with the crap in the field and the public..the NEC does no public relations we as electricians do and yet we are out of the loop..So the real issue is why are we the last know and the first to receive the hassle from the public..yet we have no say..

 

[dduffee260]

I have no problem following the rules. This actually makes more money for contractors.
I can for one really appreciate that our government is helping us to save so many lives. There really is no sense for needless death and harm for our citizens.
I feel so strongly about this, as soon as I finish this cigarette I am going to write my congressman a letter and thank him/her for caring so much about the health and lives of our citizens.

 

[wbalsam1]

how many of you have the knowledge of what is going on in the code cycles and how hard would it be to publish a list of proposals and allow us to have input..we are the one doing the work dealing with the crap in the field and the public..the NEC does no public relations we as electricians do and yet we are out of the loop..So the real issue is why are we the last know and the first to receive the hassle from the public..yet we have no say..

The National Electrical Code Committee Report on Proposals is a good place to start. It's available thru the NFPA.
I can't believe all the NFPA bashing that goes on here. One has only to read their rich history to better understand what a great function they perform for society.It's not all about money....it's still about safety. Safety costs money. (NASA comes to mind).:smile:
We're not the last to know...we're invited to be part of the process all along. We have to have the initiative to become educated about the process.

 

[cschmid]

I have never been invited..never even knew where to look until I came to this site..it is a not common knowledge and we are the public reps for NFPA's NEC we should receive a little higher preference and at less cost but I do understand someone has to pay for it..So this I believe is the real beef here..We are the NEC installers and police and yet we are last to know..there is something wrong with that picture..

 

[wbalsam1]

I have never been invited..never even knew where to look until I came to this site..it is a not common knowledge and we are the public reps for NFPA's NEC we should receive a little higher preference and at less cost but I do understand someone has to pay for it..So this I believe is the real beef here..We are the NEC installers and police and yet we are last to know..there is something wrong with that picture..

Page 70-1 of the National Electrical Code.

 

[cschmid]

I have no problem following the rules. This actually makes more money for contractors.
I can for one really appreciate that our government is helping us to save so many lives. There really is no sense for needless death and harm for our citizens.
I feel so strongly about this, as soon as I finish this cigarette I am going to write my congressman a letter and thank him/her for caring so much about the health and lives of our citizens.

they care so much about us they have been on the campainge trail for a year and getting paid and yet do not sit in the chair at their work in the senate and debate issues and pass legislation..they are getting paid to not do their job and tell me how much they care..dont tell me go do their job and make a difference..I dont have the same opinion..the things that haunt our society still haunt our society and show no signs of improvement..One is health care..if the house and senate did half as good as the NEC we would have some changes that make a difference..Sorry about the political rant I will try and stay focused on the NEC :grin:

Please PM me if this is removed and let me know so I know I crossed the line..

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Are tamper proof receptacles going to make every home being built today and in the future safer?

MY OPINION, NO!

There will be many homes where the TR receptacles will have 0% bearing on safety for the occupants of the home. That is part of the reason why I say that the requirement if it is to be instituted should/could be done accordingly in a different manner. Not for all homes in the "areas specified in 210.52"


In the corporate world, anything that adds to the "bottom line" is a plus. Every year companies across the world are looking for a way to increase their bottom line. Numerous manufacturers will see an increase in their bottom line this year due to code changes, some good - some not so good.

 

[cschmid]

Page 70-1 of the National Electrical Code.

public is invited to public meetings in Boston..I guess there is no other elctricians or states..hmmm

I am not trying to be a smart a-- here but you dont see any issue with that..there is no web sit listed. only a form in the back to send in a proposal..they can do better in the information age..

 

[brian john]

For me in residential (with regards to the OP) I am all about safety and the mantra of America "WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN". I am not being sarcastic. What gets me about these new requirements is the way I perceive the NEC heading, manufacture driven.

This is showing up in many aspects of the trade. I have had manufacture reps tell customers that only the manufacturer's are qualified to work on their equipment (Main Line Switches, {HPC, bolted pressure switch ect}, ATS's, CB's, generators). manufactures want to drive the business, from all sides.

Watch if they do not own any independent inspection (code enforcement) companies they soon will.

So call it whining, or maybe a few wise souls waking up to the reality that the big guys are trying to tie up the business.

Is your local utility performing electrical work outside their normal realm.

 

[480sparky]

I think I'm gonna call up the Big Three and complain that I had to pay for hydraulic brakes, turn signals, a horn, seat belts, headlights, parking lights, bumpers, safety glass, a crumple zone, side-impact door beams, rear- and side-view mirrors, shock absorbers, anti-lock brakes and an air bag....

Just think of the ton of money I spent on all that 'safety' crap in my truck......

 

[cowboyjwc]

public is invited to public meetings in Boston..I guess there is no other elctricians or states..hmmm

I am not trying to be a smart a-- here but you dont see any issue with that..there is no web sit listed. only a form in the back to send in a proposal..they can do better in the information age..

You need to find and join your local IAEI chapter. Numerous members of my chapter are very involved. We've had a few SouthWestern Section Presidents, many IO board members, a bunch of people that have been on CMP's, a few instructors that are still listed in the magazine.

As a chapter we get together and look at proposels, vote on them and then send a rep to the NFPA meetings to vote.

Anybody from your helper to the top guy at NFPA can submit a proposel.

 

[haskindm]

If you don't like change - get out of the electrical trade, now!
Because you ain't seen nothin' yet. The next decade is going to bring RADICAL changes to our industry, in my opinion. AFCI's and TR receptacles won't even be a drop in the bucket.

If you don't want your industry controlled by legislators and lawyers - get out of the electrical industry. Public safety is the cry of the future (and present). It is not going to go away. Everyone that comes up with an idea that improves safety, is going to find a sympathetic ear and industry leaders that are willing and anxious to adopt the new products and make them required.

At least the NEC is controlled by people that have some clue about electrical work. The auto industry is being regulated by congress, and they don't understand the technology used and available. Yet they make the requirements that the manufacturers will need to try to meet. At least the NEC is there as a buffer between us and congress!

The average homeowner is getting further and further removed from the "trades". They will need to be protected because they will not have a clue about electrical safety. They will be allot more computer savvy, but many of them will have no idea how the systems in their homes work.

I don't have a crystal ball, but that is how I see the future, and it is not that far off.

Fasten your seatbelt. This ride is going to get a lot rougher before it is over. If you aren't prepared to adapt and embrace change, get out before it is too late!

 

[iwire]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Stop and re-read the above post.​

In my opinion the above post is right on the money, are industry has stayed pretty much stagnant compared to the world around it. The future will bring big changes to our field.

 

[ITO]

The only cry babies I see here are the one that think we can protect stupid people from themselves with laws and codes in the name of the all might politically correct.

I am sorry but NFPA is not is controlled by people that have some clue about electrical work, it is run by industry insiders, lawyers and special interest groups whose only real goal is to protect their own asses, and make rules than benefit themselves... not unlike congress.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs that our own code book needs legal interpretation.

 

[iwire]

The only cry babies I see here are the one that think we can protect stupid people from themselves with laws and codes in the name of the all might politically correct.

So then your saying the code book should be thrown out?

Cause that is what every other rule in it does, it protects people from themselves.

Why are panel covers required, (remember gear used to be live front and I bet people complained when that was changed) why are lighting outlets required at stairs?

Don't worry, the really stupid people will still get hurt. :roll: :grin:

 

[satcom]

The code came about to bring some ordet to electrical wiring, blame it on edison company, when they first light up parts of lower New York City, people and horses were scared to death from arcing wires and fires, so a group of engineers, gathered to make up a set of standards that would make electrical installations safer, the rest is history, if you think about it even back then, westinghouse engineers were making the rules.

 

[lpelectric]

......I am sorry but NFPA is not is controlled by people that have some clue about electrical work, it is run by industry insiders, lawyers and special interest groups whose only real goal is to protect their own asses,
......

Care to develop this assertation a bit more? I'm lost.

 

[cowboyjwc]

What I find interesting is what does get us riled up. TR's and AFCI's are the devils tools, but when the code required a seperate 20 amp circuit to the bathrooms nobody said a word, why? The answer I hear all the time is, "we only run #12 and put in 20 amp circuit breakers anyways". Again, why? Isn't 14-2 or 14-3 cheaper than 12-2 or 12-3? convienient? Sure, but for who? Not the homeowner, they'll probably never notice the difference.

The only reason I know of for the 20 amp bathroom circuit is because of the size of the hair dryers now and people were tripping circuits. Sounds more like an inconvinence to me than a safety issue.

Nobody squawked about panic hardware on electric room doors or $15 plastic bubble covers on outlets, grounded switches, 4 prong outlets for dryers, HID rated breakers (how many nonrated breakers are out there switching HID lamps?), GFCI protected sign transformers. I'm sure you get my drift.

The times they are a changing.

 

[cschmid]

Don't worry, the really stupid people will still get hurt. :roll: :grin:

Lmao that is very true..John I will check into that to but I dont know of anyone in the far north reachs involved with the IAEI..I will do an internet search..ITO I do believe you are on the right track with that statement..Yet I would like to point out a couple of unverified observations..In MN alone we have over 3500 EC'c, plus numerous masters journeymen and apprentices..which all the numbers can be gotten now that apprentices need to be registered..but for sake arguement lets say there are 10,000 working in the electrical field in MN alone not including engineers..so lets multiply that by 52 and you get 52,000 now at 15 percent for the higher populated areas and you have 59,800 for sake of arguement lets just say 60,000..How many of us frequent this site I hope a moderator can supply that info..how many are invovled in IAEI as memebers? any ideas..So lets assume that a 1000 frequent this site and that there are 2000 in IAEI now that is like 2 percent of the electrician population..think of how many complain about the stuff on here..how many complain that we never here of..so what are your ideas to help educate everyone on the new items in advance??I am all ear and yes I look funny with only ears..

 

[peter d]

The only cry babies I see here are the one that think we can protect stupid people from themselves with laws and codes in the name of the all might politically correct.

You've given a lot of great advice here, but that has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said.

We're talking about TR receptacles here. A cheap receptacle at that. But I guess you won't be convinced that this is a good rule so why bother....only dumb people's children get injured. :roll: