What is wrong with you people??

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Years ago, fuses were all that were used in residential wiring, and they weren't the tamper-proof type you can get today.... they were all Edison-base.

When home were first wired with electricity, there were only one or two 120V circuits in the whole house. And that was fine, even with 15amp fuses, because there was only one or two receptacles on each floor, and half a dozen light bulbs.

As time went on, RCA Victor came out with the Victrola record player. Radios became all the rage, and 15a breakers wouldn't hold, so everyone stuck in a 20.

Then came color TV, vacuum cleaners, washing machines..... and the 20 wouldn't stay on, so Dad just took it out and spun in a 30.

Pretty soon, hair dryers, microwaves, home entertainment centers and big-screen TVs hit the market, and the 30 wouldn't hold. But you couldn't get a fuse bigger than a 30, so you would put a penny in the fuse box.

Now, what is the ampacity of a penny?

It has one.... really.























It's right above Lincolns' head. Check for yourself.
 
brother said:
As someone said, special interest has taken over. Im curious, as to how many 'car accidents caused injuries/deaths in the past year, and should we 'ban' automobiles??
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No, they should start giving me tickets for not wearing a seat belt in my F550 to protect myself from serious injury or death. wa? Did I say that?
 
Just when I though nobody was reading my posts…

Doesn’t it bother anyone else that the code book grows by ?” to ?” each issue? Or that there are classes on “how” to read it? Or that it reads like a lawyer wrote it?

Please don’t pretend that the new requirements for TR and AF receptacles has anything to do with safety or that we would even be discussing them unless some industry insider had not been there to advocate for them for no other reason than personal gain, in the guise of “save the children”.

Do TR and AF receptacles really effect my business? No, I just pass that expense on to my clients, who just pay more for something that I question whether or not is really necessary.

I don’t have a problem with having a code book, or common rules that we all work by but, when the governing body that writes those rules and uses their position to make rules that will effect their personal wealth, or create so much bureaucracy and legalese you have to take a class to understand how to read their rule book, I have to ask myself what will this profession be like in 2 or even 3 code book issues from now. We already live in a litigious society and every layer they put on us just makes it that much harder to sort through it all. At what point does common sense tell us the sky is not really falling and that guy selling the falling sky fix kit is not really helping anyone but himself?
 
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ITO said:
At what point does common sense tell us the sky is not really falling and that guy selling the falling sky fix kit is not really helping anyone but himself?
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That's a good question. I would have though that the American people would have had enough when they started searching little old ladies at the airport and taking their nail clippers away but I guess not.

People are afraid of everything these days, they are afraid to drink, smoke, eat meat, drink tap water or even question the government.
Our ancestors may not have lived long but they did all of the above and they lived free and they were not afraid. Fear does sell and I don' think it will stop any time soon.

If the American people are willing to pay for all this BS then who are we to talk them out of it? If we don't get their money some TV evangelist will.

Sheep always end up getting sheared. ;)
 
Growler, you and ITO should co-write a book. You both have excellent points to consider. If you do decide to, please write it in layman's terms, leaving out phrases like "shall be permitted" and "in accordance with".:smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
Growler, you and ITO should co-write a book. You both have excellent points to consider. If you do decide to, please write it in layman's terms, leaving out phrases like "shall be permitted" and "in accordance with".:smile:
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That is because, they went to different schools together!
 
cowboyjwc said:
What I find interesting is what does get us riled up. TR's and AFCI's are the devils tools, but when the code required a seperate 20 amp circuit to the bathrooms nobody said a word, why? The answer I hear all the time is, "we only run #12 and put in 20 amp circuit breakers anyways". Again, why? Isn't 14-2 or 14-3 cheaper than 12-2 or 12-3? convienient? Sure, but for who? Not the homeowner, they'll probably never notice the difference.

The only reason I know of for the 20 amp bathroom circuit is because of the size of the hair dryers now and people were tripping circuits. Sounds more like an inconvinence to me than a safety issue.
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I disagree. I don't think the point of this change was to provide 2400 watts for a blowdrier. (Since you can connect multiple bathroom receptacles to one 20a circuit.) I think the point was to get the bathroom outlets OFF of the 15 or 20 amp GP circuits within the house, so that the use of an 1800 watt blowdrier in the bathroom wouldn't plunge the surrounding areas into darkness.

Nobody squawked about panic hardware on electric room doors or $15 plastic bubble covers on outlets, grounded switches, 4 prong outlets for dryers, HID rated breakers (how many nonrated breakers are out there switching HID lamps?), GFCI protected sign transformers. I'm sure you get my drift.

The times they are a changing.
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About the only thing that is certian is change. But I think that the push for TR receptacles and AFCIs is particularily loathsome to many, because it is common knowledge these changes were proposed by, and for the benefit of the corporations that manufacture them.

The manufacturers of panic door hardware didn't petition for a code change.
 
It is clear, from history, that businesses and industries who fail to regulate themselves will be regulated (by the government). At the moment, we're regulating ourselves, and we should be happy about that.
 
"Don't complain if you aren't involved."

"Don't complain if you aren't involved."

I think we've all heard that before. I'm not implying that everyone in the forum isn't involved in the NFPA code making process, however, for those that are NFPA members and choose not to say anything or those who aren't and complain:

Everyone needs to get involved with the code making process. All points are valid but what I see in this thread is no different than a presidential election.

Guy 1: "I hate this president"
Guy 2: "Who'd you vote for?"
Guy 1: "I didn't vote"
Guy 2: "Then you have no business complaining if you didn't contribute to the process"

Just my twenty cents.
 
Let say Guy 1 hated all the candidates at election time, who could he have voted for that he would not hate as the president.

Roger
 
wbalsam1 said:
Yes, and I'll bet it was uphill both ways! :grin:
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Actually, my son (in the 6th grade) walked uphill to catch the bus and uphill after he got off the bus.

We lived in the middle of a hill. He walked up the hill to catch the bus and got off the bus downhill. LOL, I asked him about it and (I forget the answer) I just shrugged and went on.
 
roger said:
Let say Guy 1 hated all the candidates at election time, who could he have voted for that he would not hate as the president.

Roger
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I can honestly say that I've been there personally but never complained...Just waited until 2008 for the next election ;)

And not to steer this off topic into a political debate but I hope my point is taken (even with a grain of salt).
 
bhsrnd said:
I can honestly say that I've been there personally but never complained...Just waited until 2008 for the next election ;)

And not to steer this off topic into a political debate but I hope my point is taken (even with a grain of salt).
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I have been there as well. :)

Roger
 
I haven't been out here in awhile but between this thread and Mr. B "pittying the fool" in another thread I'm gettin' one heck of a good laugh!
 
wbalsam1 said:
Growler, you and ITO should co-write a book. You both have excellent points to consider. If you do decide to, please write it in layman's terms, leaving out phrases like "shall be permitted" and "in accordance with".:smile:
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When you guys do your book... make it an Audio Book with some nice music in the background. :D
 
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