What should be on a masters exam

[brian john]

I have taken 10 maybe a few more masters exams (county and state). Most of the test were strictly NEC open book, closed book and some calculations. One test was 80% fire alarm (of which I know little), because in that local the fire marshal was responsible for the test.

As for a journeyman exam I feel a good understanding of how to use the NEC is adequate.

Recently I have heard some test include business questions, theory to include math, and NEC questions and calculations.

What comprises a "good" master's exam?

What comprises a "good journeyman's exam?

 

[dcspector]

What comprises a "good journeyman's exam?

I chose J level exam to critique due to this is normally what we have leading the job. I would like to see The "Bread and Butter" of the NEC Chapters 1 thru 4 hit harder, open and closed book, especially good old article 250. 310.16 should almost be by memory as well as 250.118 thru....122 There is so much basic info from 1 thru 4.......definitions are a major key role. I have too many to list. In summary use a key word index and learn how to navigate the NEC. Also, I had trouble with the theory part untill I studied a bit more and got into a lot of troubleshooting in the field.

 

[iwire]

This is another very regional question dependent on what each license means.

Here a J-mans license (my license) allows me to do any type of electrical work up to and including running a business with up to one apprentice under me. So the J-mans licensee test focuses on the NEC including load calcs etc.

If you want to expand that business you need to get a masters license.

That being the case the masters exam has a lot of questions about business subjects as you are already assumed to be proficient with the NEC.

Even at my required Connecticut continuing education they cover business issues such as workers comp, insurance etc.

 

[cpal]

I guess it depends on the State you are taking the exam in. Here (MA) the masters is a contractors lic and with out the journeymens lic in the pocket you technically can not work unsupervised . In most cases you may not apply for a masters if you have not previously aquired a Journeymens Lic.

I think the Masters should reflect the ability of the applicant to function as a business person. Business laws and Construction (Electrical) savy.Code is important to insure compliant installations. All the other requirents should have been displayed during the Journeymens exam, and probably do not need a strong focus.

I think the Jy lic needs to cover Code, theory, math, and state laws that govern the responsibilities of a individual that will function in this trade functioning unsupervised.

Charlie

 

[brian john]

Bob:

Here a J-mans license (my license) allows me to do any type of electrical work up to and including running a business with up to one apprentice under me. So the J-mans licensee test focuses on the NEC including load calcs etc.

If you want to expand that business you need to get a masters license.

How many guys start with the two man shop "J" license and expand but do not change licenses? We had a similar license here Class "B" and "A" at one time. The "B" only let you do up to a certain dollar value, but many guys never bothered upgrading to the "A" when they hit that yearly dollar value.

 

[iwire]

How many guys start with the two man shop "J" license and expand but do not change licenses?

I do not know, I am sure it happens.

RI recently changed it so that only masters can pull permits. That has produced a great source of side money for Masters that pull the permits for jobs that they never see.

My point being is no matter how you set up the rules there will be ways around them and people willing to do so.

 

[mdshunk]

I don't think there should be exams. There is still no proof that tradecraft licensing does anything to enhance the safety or quality of the resultant installation. Inspections and adopted codes enhance (or rather assure) the safety, licensing does not.

 

[iwire]

I don't think there should be exams. There is still no proof that tradecraft licensing does anything to enhance the safety or quality of the resultant installation.

You may be right, but I am quite happy with the status quo in my area as it makes me a more valuable commodity resulting in higher wages. :smile:

 

[mdshunk]

You may be right, but I am quite happy with the status quo in my area as it makes me a more valuable commodity resulting in higher wages. :smile:

Certainly. That's the only benefit I see coming from tradecraft licensing.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I believe testing is necessary. It helps to see that the person(s) looking to procure a license actually may spend some time in a class or codebook. (remember, I did say may - there are always exceptions) I have more to say, but I would probably receive a letterbomb if I divulge how much more I would like to say...:wink:
I could not imagine what it would be like if licenses were just handed out.

The test should always be open book, since in 'real' life, we do use the book.
I also believe that a person who is taking a Masters license or any license that permits them to be a "business entity" should have some knowledge of "business" as the State they operate in supports. All States (jurisdictions) have different requirements for operation and the business owners should have access and understanding of those requirements (at least some of them).

Connecticut has a supplemental business book that they test to and can be purchased online. It lays out some of the basics and more, to what the State requires. I teach for that portion of the test, and I think it is great for the guys. Most of them are daunted by it at first, but they realize it does not take long to learn how to use it.


As an inspection company owner, I cannot tell you how many "electrical company owners" really have no clue how to run a business.
I completely understand how 'Darwin's Theory' can be applied to businesses. I believe it would be better for all involved to have some basic understanding of how the business one is involved in, can be successfully run.


As far as the math is concerned, I think the basics is fine. Ohm's Law.
The average EC does not perform many other calcs out in the field...if the do, they will find the way to do it.

If I had the luxury of picking a topic(s) that I thought would help them the most, I would pick 2.
1. Code

2. Theory

 

[wbalsam1]

Here are some sample questions I created some years back for a municipality in my region to use in their electrician-licensing test. It was quite effective in finding "problem" candidates. Open book, too. 33 Q's each worth 3 points. :smile:

1. The ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors and the rating or setting of overcurrent protective devices supplying fixed electric space-heating equipment consisting of resistance elements with or without a motor shall be not less than _______ percent of the total load of the motors and the heaters?
A. 140%
B. 110%
C. 125%
D. 85%

2. The minimum wire bending space at the terminals of enclosed motor controllers (in inches) for size 250 kcmil is:
A. 10 in.
B. 7 in.
C. 9.5 in.
D. 8 in.

3. Branch-circuit conductors supplying a single motor shall have an ampacity not less than __________ percent of the motor full-load current rating?
A. 135%
B. 120%
C. 90%
D. 125%

 

[chris kennedy]

1) c
2) d
3) d (assuming continious duty)

Did I score a 9?:smile:

 

[wbalsam1]

1) c
2) d
3) d (assuming continious duty)

Did I score a 9?:smile:

I've PM'ed your grade so as to keep the test active. :smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Fred
Those are all motor questions.
How many electricians actually work on motors?

I think a test may have one or two motor questions, but how about the general work that 90% or more electricians actually perform???

 

[wbalsam1]

Fred
Those are all motor questions.
How many electricians actually work on motors?

I think a test may have one or two motor questions, but how about the general work that 90% or more electricians actually perform???

OK, Pierre, I'll post three more that are not "motor" questions. :smile:

 

[wbalsam1]

Three more questions. (non-motor) PM the answers if you like.

4. Which statement(s) is/are true?

1. Exposed deicing and snow-melting equipment is permitted to be fastened to the surface being heated by any readily available means
2. Deicing elements may be installed where bridging expansion joints where provisions are not made for contraction and expansion
3. Where the heating element is not in direct contact with the surface being heated, the design of the heater assembly need not be concerned with temperature limitations
4. Where heating elements are installed on flexible structures, said elements shall have a compatible flexibility with the structure

A. None are true
B. 3 and 4 are true
C. 1 and 2 are true
D. 4 is true
E. 2 is true

Q# 5. Cable limiters, instrument transformers (current and voltage), high-impedance shunts and taps used only to supply load management devices are equipment that is not permitted to be connected to the supply side of the service disconnect.
A. True
B. False

Q# 6. In class 1, Division 1 and 2, the cross-sectional area of the conductors permitted in a seal shall not exceed _______ percent of the cross-sectional area of a ridged metal conduit of the same trade size unless it is specifically approved for a higher percentage of fill.

A. 50%
B. 125%
C. 40%
D. 25%

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

How about:

Generators
Transformers
Sizing of services/feeders/branch circuits/conductors
Tap rules
Wiring methods
lighting requirements
Some definitions
Grounding
Bonding
occupancy related items
Art 725, 800s

I could go on...

Now get writing and have those question on my desk pronto.

 

[wbalsam1]

7. Each commercial building and commercial occupancy accessible to pedestrians shall be provided with ___________ in an accessible location at each entrance to each tenant space for sign outline lighting system use.

A. One receptacle and one switch
B. One outlet
C. At least one outlet
D. At least one lighting fixture

8. What is the minimum allowable length of free conductors at outlets?

A. 6 inches
B. 5 inches
C. 9 inches
D. 8 inches

9. What is the required length of rods and pipes when used as grounding electrode?
Rods:_________feet Pipes:______feet

 

[chris kennedy]

4) d
5) b
6) d

Am I the only one playing this game?

 

[wbalsam1]

4) d
5) b
6) d

Am I the only one playing this game?

You're the only one submitting answers. I've PM'ed your grade. :smile: