What should be on a masters exam

[brantmacga]

I would like to see The "Bread and Butter" of the NEC Chapters 1 thru 4 hit harder, open and closed book, especially good old article 250. 310.16 should almost be by memory as well as 250.118 thru....122 There is so much basic info from 1 thru 4.......

I definitely agree with that. My GA non-restricted EC test had very little 1-4 on there. I had TWO service calc questions, both residential 1ph 200A. Most of the questions I faced were business law, welder calcs, pools & spas, emergency systems. That was 70% of my test. I say that's ridiculous.

 

[ItsHot]

highlighting

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Mike
Fred is from NY...we are not considering using the '08 for a long time to come...maybe he is like me and we are not paying too much attention to the '08.

Fred will let you know if I am off the mark.


P.S. I just started highlighting my '08 NEC today....

Maybe you will be finished highlighting the 08 by the time NY adopts it!!

 

[iaov]

The original theme of this post was about what should be on a Masters test.The Wisconsin Masters test that I just took was All code. There were no questions that you could just go to the index and find the answers. I'm partially inclined to agree with mdshunk that being able to pass inspection is the final arbiter of showing competence. How ever there are a ton of people out there twisting wires together who will never face an inspection and who have not a clue as to what a safe, code compliant installation is. The State of Wisconsin by requiring a Masters Certification for electrical work, is trying to adress this problem. By doing so they forced me to hit the books and while it may not look like it, I'm a litttle bit smarter than I was a few months ago!!

 

[mike johnson]

Testing is Needed.

Testing is Needed.

I don't think there should be exams. There is still no proof that tradecraft licensing does anything to enhance the safety or quality of the resultant installation. Inspections and adopted codes enhance (or rather assure) the safety, licensing does not.

:-? :-? Yea sure just let anyone do electrical wiring. No tests required. Wire at will everyone. It is not a profession that takes skill and knowledge either???????? Please.......

Too many hacks and pretenders out there. Licensing is required just like high school, or vocational, technical diplomacy, cetification and degrees are required. Just like asvabs are required for armed forces. It's called earn your way through life. It's a test for recognition and honor. Something people who don't have frown upon. Talk is cheap prove what you know. Exams are needed.

 

[jrannis]

I don't think there should be exams. There is still no proof that tradecraft licensing does anything to enhance the safety or quality of the resultant installation. Inspections and adopted codes enhance (or rather assure) the safety, licensing does not.

Marc,
I have seen some brillant post from you but this one............ seems like some crackhead hijacked your log in ID.

 

[George Stolz]

Careful, that's stepping right up to the line and spitting over into a personal attack. Marc's a big boy, so I'm not touching it.

I believe the area Marc works in doesn't require licensing, yet does require inspections. If in his experience that system appears to work, then so be it. It doesn't make him a crackhead.

...hijacked your log in ID.

I believe Marc has actually said this in the past, if memory serves.

Edit to add: You guys did notice he mentioned that inspections do happen and are the driving force behind good installations, right? Seems to me you're focusing on the first statement and ignoring the second.

 

[iwire]

I believe the area Marc works in doesn't require licensing, yet does require inspections. If in his experience that system appears to work, then so be it.

I agree George.

If we really read what Marc posted and think about it he said nothing that was wrong or untrue.

Assuming the inspectors are looking at the work there really is no need for the licensing.

Of course I grew up with it, invested my time and money getting a license so I would not want to see it go away.

 

[mike johnson]

Wow...

Wow...

I agree George.

If we really read what Marc posted and think about it he said nothing that was wrong or untrue.

Assuming the inspectors are looking at the work there really is no need for the licensing.

Of course I grew up with it, invested my time and money getting a license so I would not want to see it go away.

It will never go away just like a hsd will never go away. Unless you want more skaters in this world wanting something for nothing. Licensing will also soon be in all states. Very soon. It's just a matter of time and changing of the generations.

Try being a inspector and inspecting unlicensed work all day and night using the word failed time after time.

 

[mdshunk]

Marc,
I have seen some brillant post from you but this one............ seems like some crackhead hijacked your log in ID.

You could fill some pretty big books with all the dumb stuff I've ever said, but I just don't think this is one of them.

 

[iwire]

Licensing will also soon be in all states. Very soon.

And you know that how?

 

[brian john]

In defense of Marc. Some of the worst, dumbest, biggest hacks, I have know or followed behind were licensed many were masters. I know some EXCELLENT electricians that are not licensed.

That being said, I prefer a system that requires licensing, allows the government to dip in my pocket one more time.

 

[mike johnson]

I agree.

I agree.

In defense of Marc. Some of the worst, dumbest, biggest hacks, I have know or followed behind were licensed many were masters. I know some EXCELLENT electricians that are not licensed.

That being said, I prefer a system that requires licensing, allows the government to dip in my pocket one more time.

I know many excellent electricians that are not licensed also. Where do you think the ones who are licensed now were before they were licensed?????? same status. I also know hacks that are licensed (but) they have proof they have finished High School or obtained a GED. I'd like to see someone without these prerequisites get a license????????

It's not always about government dipping in pocket. Earn your right to do business.

 

[brian john]

It's not always about government dipping in pocket. Earn your right to do business.

Licensing is a good thing for the most part, but do not fool yourself IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY.

 

[mike johnson]

I agree.

I agree.

Licensing is a good thing for the most part, but do not fool yourself IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY.

It is about the money. That's with anything. Take college tuition for instance and better yet the time it takes to complete a trade school. Some trade schools may say 9 months long and some may say 6 months long. Same topics covered but the monthly bill is longer on the 9 months long school. Look who makes more money for the same training. O believe me i know. I didn't say it wasn't about the money i just said (not always) about the gov dipping.

 

[iwire]

I also know hacks that are licensed (but) they have proof they have finished High School or obtained a GED. I'd like to see someone without these prerequisites get a license????????

Mike I hold electrical lionesses in three states, had to test for each one, non-reciprocal. I have been working in the trade since I was 17 and have always been a leader at each company I have worked for.

I did not graduate and do not have a GED, as a matter of fact I was tossed from high school part way through my sophomore year.

So.....what does the license 'prove'......nothing at all, only that I am legally qualified to work in those states.

 

[C3PO]

I think licensing and testing is important as well as inspections. Inspections are the last line of defense.

I also think my area should require continuing education. Some people may not learn anything from it, but at least they would have to show up and sit through it.

 

[mike johnson]

What states are these????

What states are these????

Mike I hold electrical lionesses in three states, had to test for each one, non-reciprocal. I have been working in the trade since I was 17 and have always been a leader at each company I have worked for.

I did not graduate and do not have a GED, as a matter of fact I was tossed from high school part way through my sophomore year.

So.....what does the license 'prove'......nothing at all, only that I am legally qualified to work in those states.

In what states can you obtain a Electrical Contractors License in without a hsd or ged??????????

I'm sure many would like to hear this answer.:-?

 

[iwire]

MA, RI, CT is where I hold the licenses.

And before you say that they don't take licensing seriously ....

MA 8000 hrs in the trade over four years and 600 hrs of trade school, 21 hours continuing education every code cycle.

 

[mike johnson]

Good requirements. but?

Good requirements. but?

MA, RI, CT is where I hold the licenses.

And before you say that they don't take licensing seriously ....

MA 8000 hrs in the trade over four years and 600 hrs of trade school, 21 hours continuing education every code cycle.

600 hrs of trade school.
What Electrical trade school lets you attend without a hsd or ged?

 

[iwire]

600 hrs of trade school.
What Electrical trade school lets you attend without a hsd or ged?

Well now your asking something I can not answer you.

When I went to trade school it was part of my high school, but that was more then 25 years ago and at that time it was not state mandated.

But actually the apprentices at the company I was working at last year where going to a company sponsored state accredited trade school right at our shop, I doubt the question of HSD or GED came up.

Let me ask this Mike.

How would additional time learning social studies, grammar and history produce better electricians?