what to charge

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macmikeman said:
Ya, well ok, but if I have only 4 hours a day at $235 I will go to the beach, and watch the competetors trucks drive past on the way to the $65 jobs while I surf, and still pay the bills.
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Then reality shatters your dream world,if your competitors are at $65.00/hr then chances are you are not going to get $235.00/hr at least not on a consistant enough basis to lay on the beach and keep your business bills paid.You have one thing also to factor in you can charge $300.00/hr but in order to get it you have to find someone willing to pay it and that is the rub.most will shop around and if you bid $940.00 and your competitor bids $260.00 then you will soon find you can spend all day at the beach.
 
Rewire said:
Then reality shatters your dream world,if your competitors are at $65.00/hr then chances are you are not going to get $235.00/hr at least not on a consistant enough basis to lay on the beach and keep your business bills paid.You have one thing also to factor in you can charge $300.00/hr but in order to get it you have to find someone willing to pay it and that is the rub.most will shop around and if you bid $940.00 and your competitor bids $260.00 then you will soon find you can spend all day at the beach.
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His competitors would not be at $65 an hour, they are hack or partime rates, a full time business supporting a licensed electrician earning a living wage could not pay their expenses at $65 an hour.
 
Rewire said:
most will shop around and if you bid $940.00 and your competitor bids $260.00 then you will soon find you can spend all day at the beach.
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And that statement is exactly why this industry is swirling around a toilet bowl.
 
satcom said:
His competitors would not be at $65 an hour, they are hack or partime rates, a full time business supporting a licensed electrician earning a living wage could not pay their expenses at $65 an hour.
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Makes no difference to many HOs or GCs. Git-'er-done is all that matters.
 
emahler said:
the largest problem with the 'going rate' is that it's set by guys who have never determined what their real costs of doing business are...they simply set their price based on the 'going rate' of the guys before them...

This is the problem with a "going rate"
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Going Going Gone! Why I believe some basic business skills should be part of the license requirement, and in state with CEU's a CEU required course.
 
i recently sat through an estimating course...problem was, the teacher was teaching a piss poor method based on unrealistic situations...it was FUBAR...and I like the teacher...but it's sad..
 
Rewire said:
Then reality shatters your dream world,if your competitors are at $65.00/hr then chances are you are not going to get $235.00/hr at least not on a consistant enough basis to lay on the beach and keep your business bills paid.You have one thing also to factor in you can charge $300.00/hr but in order to get it you have to find someone willing to pay it and that is the rub.most will shop around and if you bid $940.00 and your competitor bids $260.00 then you will soon find you can spend all day at the beach.
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Sorry to tell you, but that has been exactly my model for several years. You want to work a full week and earn less than me, you go right ahead.
 
funny part is, with resi service, there is no going rate...because no two things are the same...the only going rate is whatever rate people think your T&M rate should be...get away from T&M, and suddenly you are no longer competing on some false 'going rate'
 
Knowledge is the key componet to point out. With doctors or lawyers when they make a mistake someone goes to jail or dies (worst case senario). When We make a mistake everyone in the house could die, or hundreds in the highrise building (also worst case senario). With so much to learn about the human body or all laws you see them specilizing ie. foot doctor, kidney, cancer, tax law, DUI, this is better known as a niche. Those who know their nich, will know it better than anyone who does it all, or at least they should. they will know what parts to bring and how long it will take. Those of us who do everything or at least try to " I'm one of them" should keep records of what the original bid was and what the actual cost ended up being. This is called histoical data. With this you should note job site conditions, rain clear other trades on site, and so on whether they affected the job negativley or positivey. Regardless off how far you went in school if you have that piece of paper that says you know what you are doing you should charge for it, and point that out to the customer whenever you can, ask who your other bidders are and if they know if they are legit. Heck here in Texas even engineers are required to work under a licensed engineer for 4 years before they can work on their own. Knowledge is power lets start using it.



Thaks Will D.
 
doctors, lawyers and other professionals charge for what they know...

electricians, and other labor charge for what we do...

there is a big difference.
 
emahler said:
doctors, lawyers and other professionals charge for what they know...

electricians, and other labor charge for what we do...

there is a big difference.
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I really don't care about "other labor" just Electricians, besides you left out an important fact. When the "electricians" out there just "what we do" part of the job and don't know what do do most of the time it is wrong. For example " Oh your breaker is tripping when you turn on your hair dryer , thats an easy fix I'll just put on a 40 amp breaker", or " The home inspector said the tester he used on your plugs showed an open ground, thats an easy fix we'll just put a jumper on the ground and the Neutral and those lites will work next time, yes of course its safe they both go back to the same spot anyway". Now you want tell me again how we only charge for "what we do".

Thanks Will D.
 
willdalrymple said:
I really don't care about "other labor" just Electricians, besides you left out an important fact. When the "electricians" out there just "what we do" part of the job and don't know what do do most of the time it is wrong. For example " Oh your breaker is tripping when you turn on your hair dryer , thats an easy fix I'll just put on a 40 amp breaker", or " The home inspector said the tester he used on your plugs showed an open ground, thats an easy fix we'll just put a jumper on the ground and the Neutral and those lites will work next time, yes of course its safe they both go back to the same spot anyway". Now you want tell me again how we only charge for "what we do".

Thanks Will D.
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Plenty of doctors act exactly the same way with quicky diagnosis, but we are drifting here.
 
emahler said:
doctors, lawyers and other professionals charge for what they know...

electricians, and other labor charge for what we do...

there is a big difference.
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Yeah I charge for programing PLC's but I don't know anything I just do it.
 
macmikeman said:
So based on this info, if the borders keep getting opened up and the current situation of how the "competition keeps lowering the prices based on their hiring practices, that means I should now be charging $5 per hour???
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If the going rate is $5 and hour you won't get a whole lot of business charging $200/hour.
 
petersonra said:
If the going rate is $5 and hour you won't get a whole lot of business charging $200/hour.
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So EC's should charge the "going rate" and break even or lose money? Or make just enough to get by?

As had been stated, the "going rate" is based on a flawed foundation.
 
peter d said:
So EC's should charge the "going rate" and break even or lose money? Or make just enough to get by?

As had been stated, the "going rate" is based on a flawed foundation.
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ECs should charge a rate based on their expenses:

Rent
Vehicle (Gas, Insurance, Repairs, etc)
Labor
Bookkeeping / Accounting
Advertising
Utilities (Electric, gas, water, etc)
Permits, licensing, bonding
Liability Insurance
Telephone (land line, fax, cell)
Tools (always calculate some funds for tools.... they will break/ear out/get lost or stolen!)
Interest paid
Education / Code update classes

etc.etc.etc ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Take the above amount, and calculate how much you need to charge in order to cover those expenses, plus what you want to make as a salary.

If you can't make enough to cover your expenses, you're not charging enough, despite what others charge. You either need to

1. Lower your expenses
2. Lower your expectations
3. Go find a job.
 
Quote"If the going rate is $5 and hour you won't get a whole lot of business charging $200/hour."
__________________Well let's see, if the going rate is $5 an hour I need to work 40 hours to achieve the same thing as 1 hour at $200, so unlike you, I would rather work smart than constantly. And as it is now, I still work constantly if I want to.
 
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