When do you consider yourself an electrician?

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Shaneyj said:
You’ve got plenty of experience. Why aren’t you licensed?
That’s not meant to be hostile, btw.
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The lawless that can't pass inspection avoid licensing & permits, but competent or experienced talent can also avoid licensing:

* When Responsible Managing Operators (RMO) are liable for management who wont permit hot work or enforce PPE.
* When Mgmt. exploiting unregulated laborers tend to burn thru RMO's, and you become next RMO candidate when licensed.
* When the market is dominated by labor shops without workman's comp. who out bid rival licenses often burned by disgruntled WC claims.
* When deregulated consumer protections enable any hack to operate in this industry, and low ball fair bids from licensed professionals.
* Since general contractors (GC) burn sub-contractors who wont lien for payment, or lawyer up to challenge unconscionable-indemnity contracts.
* When State law (ie) Labor Code 3099.2 or 108.2(b)(1) punishes electrical shops missing JW certification, but gives GC laborers a pass.
* When advertising license limits for small fixes are rewarded, by a loyal public weary of getting burned by dirt bags with no legal limits.
* Your reason here ...
 
All I know is the company I used to work for had no benefits, hired a lot of people that no one else would hire. People who are on probation from jail and people who use drugs but they turn a blind eye to unless they get hurt or someone makes an allegation that they are using drugs at work. They don't want people to advance, they wanted permanent helpers and installers. Very high turn over rate. No official training except for OJT from whoever the lead was. They mostly did new construction residential. The teams were two man. One lead installer and one helper. The owner didn't want the helper to pull any wire, only mount boxes and sweep. The goal was speed, and if the lead didn't like the helper he didn't bother teaching them anything. No one had a license except the owner. He always looked pissed and was unapproachable.
 
Sea Nile said:
This is an honest question, not trying to make a point, or rub anyone the wrong way.

Of the different stages, this is how I break it down...

1. Electrician's helper - typically a young person who doesn't know what he wants to do with his life, or someone who just wants a paycheck and not interested in learning.

2. Basic Installer - Someone who has been a helper long enough to work independently and possibly be in charge of helpers. Usually has a chip on their shoulder. Invests in their own tools.

3. Apprentice - someone who wants to learn how to be an electrician and doesn't have the "I'm God's gift to electricity" attitude. They study, ask questions, and invest in their own tools and books. Sometimes bumps heads with basic installers about doing things the right way.

4. Senior installer - very productive, fast, and knows how to make the company money and pass inspections. But doesn't understand theory or why they do what they do.

5. Unlicensed journeyman - very experienced, knows how to troubleshoot, people listed above (1-4) asks him how to do things. Has a good relationship with inspectors and can talk intelligently about all aspects of the job. But for whatever reason, hasn't or can't become licensed.

6. Licenced journeyman and above are self explanatory.

And of course almost everyone listed above will call themselves an electrician.

The reason I bring up this question, is i've always considered myself an apprentice.
I'll never accept the title of helper or installer. I plan on going from apprentice to unlicensed journeyman. But it amazes me how many people I meet who consider themselves electricians and I know much more than they do.

So at what point do I drop the apprentice label and just identify as an electrician?
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When I started out in the trade as an apprentice in 1972 with a local union and rotating amongst different shops
we did all phases of electrical installations, commercial, industrial, residential.
A great mentor and forman at that time told me to be a qualified electrician you needed 10 yrs under your belt

IMHO, I believe this to be true today.
 
Working pt in the electrical dept at a Home Depot, I can tell you a large number of guys consider themselves an electrician if they can identify what a wire nut is, or as some ask for, "the caps". Homeowners are very generous with the term as well, "My electrician said he can replace our 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp, which we need because the 15 amp trips when we plug in our two heaters". Anyway, I wasn't comfortable introducing myself as an electrician until I had about 4 years in the trade, around the time I got my journeymen's license.
As a side note, you would be shocked to see how many single pole 30 amp breakers we sell. In 25 years doing residential, commercial, and industrial, I've never had the need to install one.
 
mark32 said:
30 amp breakers we sell. In 25 years doing residential, commercial, and industrial, I've never had the need to install one.
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I never thought about it but yeah I really don't think I've ever installed one either.

When I was a kid we had a 30 amp 120v circuit for our barn. Fed a little sub panel/ fuse box in the barn with two 15 amp plug fuses it it. But that was all really old, and the barn was all still K&T
 
mtnelect said:
Every used a penny ?
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Joethemechanic said:
I never thought about it but yeah I really don't think I've ever installed one either.

When I was a kid we had a 30 amp 120v circuit for our barn. Fed a little sub panel/ fuse box in the barn with two 15 amp plug fuses it it. But that was all really old, and the barn was all still K&T
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About the only use I’ve ever had for a 30 amp 120 volt circuit is for a 30 amp 120 volt rv outlet. Never seen it for anything else
 
Crash117 said:
30 amp 120 volt circuit
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If you had a lighting circuit with 3 of these 30A would work out :D

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Besoeker3 said:
That's engineer rather than electrician.
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Well he sure isn't an engineer even though he calls himself one. No engineering degree, no engineer's stamp, never even took the EIT.
And the crap he proposes is not what an engineer would propose. Like the hyperloop, pods in a partial vacuum that ride on an air cushion. Or the tunnel boring where he says they are going to make bricks out of all the spoils. Yeah, ok,, bricks that don't meet ASTM C62-17.

So if he can call himself an engineer, anybody can call themselves anything
 
Joethemechanic said:
Well he sure isn't an engineer even though he calls himself one. No engineering degree, no engineer's stamp, never even took the EIT.
And the crap he proposes is not what an engineer would propose. Like the hyperloop, pods in a partial vacuum that ride on an air cushion. Or the tunnel boring where he says they are going to make bricks out of all the spoils. Yeah, ok,, bricks that don't meet ASTM C62-17.

So if he can call himself an engineer, anybody can call themselves anything
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Well Nikola Tesla wasn't an engineer, had some great ideas and some wacky ideas...
 
Elon has a sense of humor.
The Tesla model S, Model E, Model X.
Spells S-E-X
Let that sink in.

Benjamin Franklin didn't have a formal education either. All free thinkers not confined by the conformity of institutionalized learning

Also model Y
S-E-X-Y
 
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I'm kinda torn on liking or disliking Elon Musk.
On one hand, as an African American, I feel I'm obligated to support him, on the other hand, I don't support electric vehicles. So I strive to remain neutral.
 
I had a helper from 2015 to 2019 who came to me with what he called "no experience" but had rewired 2 of his own houses to code

After 2 days I told him I had to pay him more money than we agreed on because he clearly better than "no experience"

After a month I gave him another raise to where he was making 50% more than when I hired him.

He was very interested to learn, very inquisitive. He got better and better, but never liked it if someone on the job called him an electrician.

After about 3½ years he asked me what he needed for him to be an electrician. I told him he was lacking only one thing. I said:

All you need is a half-ounce of confidence and you're there. Everyone around you sees you as an electrician, but you can't see it because you refuse to say "I am"

He became an electrician that day
 
I have used a couple 30 over the years. Canopy lights, chop saw circuit, couple other places. The SQD display in the store is stupid, 10 spots for 30, 10 for the 15s and 10 for the 20s which are always empty, 9 30's left, seems they would get a grasp on this???????????
As for the electrician and the definitions,,, the more I study the more I realize I am not.
I qualify here as installer of electric equipment and maintenance electrician. I found an apprentice sign up card in an o;d book from the ;ate 80's maybe, forgot to send it in. Now they want real proof of hours recorded and I dont spose reading Bob and Don count. It was pretty obvious that there have been guys made it thru without understanding the real concept behind a box connector, that was never that big a mystery. I got by a long time due to design, did a lot of stuff wrong at times, I copied a lot, I learned to punchlist a service and my installs look right, fool, a lot of people in that respect.
Can go to dinner with the inspectors and to the bar with the guys and even bout got killed running a job when someone told them I was not really one of the gang,,, ha
I regret not taking up a couple offers but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont have the legit hours to record in the system and really dont have the math and to tell the absolute truth dont know anything about electric which is a different skill set than being a wireman or installer.
I had a guy start splaining to me some of the details and thought he would corner me on something and asked,,, what size conductors on 480 single for ball park lights, was going to prove the fos concept and I say 500 MCM or such for the close ones and 750 for the longand he about pee,,, something the handyman type wouldnt grasp but not really such a genius on my behalf, just simply had done one and I can memorize. I saw a case the other day, 4 year guy, asked what wire to the rods and he knows a lot other people dont and says,,, I dont have my code book with me.
Now being Capt Obvious,,, I couldnt tell the theory but how hard is it to remember 6 to the rods for 200?
I doubt I could pass a test, I might with some study but the calcs would give me a problem but do have good test taking skills so who knows.
So when do we consider themselves this?? To real electricians I am not,,, I say welder that knows the difference between the green or bare and the white wire, to a cutie that is having trouble with a dryer outlet,,, I am, have a couple inspectors think I am and I dont say any different. I keep it in context.
I have service and rewire for friend of a friend coming up, its a mess, takes a bit of experience to understand what was done etc,, told my secretary a bit about this. While I dont carry the paper here on this job I am a master at, I failed 2 insp in about 90 or so, put something in the wall I shouldnt and something on an an entrance on a mobil and that is the last time.
 
jaggedben said:
at a certain point I realized that I reliably knew more about the code and electrical theory than many EC's I encountered working for the same clients
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That's similar to how I felt. Certain people I worked with appreciated it when I showed them something that made their install more compliant. Others I just pissed off. Especially when I mounted a box within 6' of the door instead of where they wanted me to. Or moved a hallway receptacle so it wouldn't be within 6' of a bathroom sink through a door.
 
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