Where does the buck stop? (Theoretically)

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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Per the OSHA FAQ: There is no right to refuse to perform work that you deem unsafe. Your employer can terminate you.
I prefer it be worded in a more positive tone...

You have the right to not perform any work at any time for any reason. This right, however, does not protect you from any ensuing consequence.

;):grin:
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
What exactly are you being asked to do that has you this concerned? will this job be inspected?
I asked the question in general, as I stated in the OP - there isn't any one thing in particular that's happened at work that has me concerned. I will admit though, that after a few recent jobs and what I've been learning on my own it seems that my employer is not exactly current on his knowledge of code. (major understatement) Neither am I though, which is why I'm here and learning.

Jobs are being inspected, although I have doubts as to the quality of the inspections.

All in all, I feel I'm in a position that may put me in some liable position sooner or later if employees can be held liable. I'm trying to keep on top of code myself in the meantime now that I've seen the problem, but I'm not always able to catch stuff in time (Admittedly, if I do, there hasn't been a problem with getting things done correctly).

Some recent examples from the horse barn job (my first):

-Boss delivered a 100A main lug panel. Luckily we can get a main breaker adapter...
-Boss didn't plan on ground rod for barn panel - easy fix.
-Concrete floor was poured before I knew we needed to bond for equipotential plane. (inspector didn't check, boss doesn't know)
-Existing feeders to barn are AL Direct Burial, with AL ground.

Luckily I have someone to talk to about the job who specializes in barns. I do what I can to make things legal, but I can't tell the owner that the floor should be bonded or that the EGC to the barn should be replaced with a CU ground. When dealing with a different inspector on a commercial job, I was able to contact him directly and get very competent instruction about what he wanted. With the inspector at this job, it's a different story. And should it be me talking to the inspectors in the first place?
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I dont see a problem with this as long as they are sized right, unless the AL ground is bare?

unless this is a new code or something?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading (it wouldn't be the first time.)

2008NEC:547.9(D)

Also, I'm not seeing horses mentioned here in the agricultural buildings section, so I'm not sure that rubber matted stalls or rubber paved walkway areas are considered the same as bare concrete or even whether horses are considered "Livestock"
 

hurk27

Senior Member
No I think you have it right, just never read that section yet, all I have on this computer is the "2002" and it's there but in (C) instead of (D)

I see now if the supply to the building is run underground, it has to be a copper grounding conductor.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Murder, yes... manslaughter, no.

Agreeing with Smart$ twice in one day. :grin:

Vehicular manslaughter is a good example, you can be sent to jail simply for causing an accident with death resulting, you do not have to intended to kill anyone, all you have to do is something that could be reasonably expected to cause a death, like speeding, or running a light etc.
 

charlietuna

Senior Member
I know of one electrician who went to jail for faulty wiring! Years after his wife died suddenly this electrician starts bragging to a few of his buddies that he killed his wife and got away with it! Somehow the story got back to her family and they opened an investigation, exumed her body and found proof of burns on her ankles. :grin:
 

arossi

Member
One thing I did a few years ago, employer told me to do something I didn't like, of course we argued and I lost, but when the inspector "happend" to see it, the work was changed to what was right. Sometimes there is another way out.
 

ultramegabob

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
One thing I did a few years ago, employer told me to do something I didn't like, of course we argued and I lost, but when the inspector "happend" to see it, the work was changed to what was right. Sometimes there is another way out.
thats why I asked if the job was going to be inspected, a phone call could be made to the inspector with a "tip" what to look for.
 

MarkyMarkNC

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh NC
Just to put another wrinkle into this.....

I don't have my liability insurance policy in front of me, but I seem to recall reading that my company will not cover a claim in which a criminal act is involved.

480 is right though, the lawyers are going to sue you, anybody around you, and anybody that even looks like you.
 

wawireguy

Senior Member
This is a hard one.. With the ego's that electricians have it's very easy to get yourself in hot water bringing up code violations, even if not trivial, because the guy you are working for has umpteen years of experience and a small you know what.. I just make sure no one will get killed. IE: bonding and grounding. Do your best to communicate problems but at the end of the day if your boss isn't receptive to you bringing up problems you do what you have to do.
 
I know of one electrician who went to jail for faulty wiring! Years after his wife died suddenly this electrician starts bragging to a few of his buddies that he killed his wife and got away with it! Somehow the story got back to her family and they opened an investigation, exumed her body and found proof of burns on her ankles. :grin:
wow, when and where was this???!! talking about murder.
 
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