Which rules/laws in the construction industry....

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crossman said:
The threshold cannot be determined until I am presented with a situation in which I have to make a decision. The question is too vague to give a concrete answer. There are just too many variables that factor into what is right and what is wrong for each individual.

As an example, yes, I drive over the speed limit. But that is dependent upon the cicumstance. If I am out in the middle of nowhere and the speed limit is 65, I may do 75. But if there is a policeman driving beside me, I go the speed limit. If I am in a residential neighborhood, I do the speed limit. If in a school zone, I try to do the speed limit. On the freeway and everyone else is doing 10 mph over, I will blend in and do the same.

I know this is concerning electrical stuff.... so present some scenarios to us. Then we can each give an account of what we would do. That would be fun!
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i've presented about 10 scenerios in this thread...
 
emahler said:
we're not talking about legislating morality....we are talking about why some guys feel justified in doing side work illegally and taking food off a legal contractors table, but would call the labor board on their boss if he shorted them 15 mins in their weekly check?

we're talking about why some guy thinks he can not follow the prevailing wage laws, but let a customer not pay him....

so while morality comes into play, we are talking about when and why do you decide that the existing legislation doesn't apply to you?
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I got it we are talking the difference between fools and wisemen...

Remember wise-man does not think of him self only he thinks of the world around and sees big picture..Fool only thinks of himself and how it affects him because the world is about him..

Another difference between fools and wise men..
 
cschmid said:
I got it we are talking the difference between fools and wisemen...

Remember wise-man does not think of him self only he thinks of the world around and sees big picture..Fool only thinks of himself and how it affects him because the world is about him..

Another difference between fools and wise men..
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;)..........
 
Okay, side jobs:

I don't do side jobs, not so much because I am totally against it, more that I work enough damn time right now, and don't want to work any more. My free time is worth at least 100 bucks an hour, and i haven't found too many folks who will pay that for an electrician. Every now and then I get roped into doing work for a (so-called) friend but I don't charge them, and I am cussing under my breath the entire time I am doing the work. As I said, I work enough %#$^ hours as it is.

But let's say I decided I was going to do side jobs. Here would be my rational:

#1. Texas legislated a state licensing program about 4 years ago. There was a total of about a two-year "grandfathering" period where any hack, waana-bee, or even non-electrician could get a license without testing, all they had to do was write a fake letter with a fake signature saying they were experienced electricians. So, at the present time, having a JW license in Texas really doesn't mean that a person is qualified. There are plenty of legal HACKS out there doing LEGAL work right now. So the law is a bunch of garbage at the moment. And I am a better electrician than 90% of the other licensed guys and I am not a hack. I know the code and do good work.

#2. The whole danged state has like 2 electrical inspectors. The state has no permitting requirements anyway. There is very little enforcement. The state leaves it to each city to enforce whatever rules may be in place. So if I wanted to do side jobs, I would just do them in the county where there are no permits and no enforcement.

#3 It seems like the whole state licensing issue is just a money-making scam on the part of the state. So why should I have any faith in some arbitrary laws with no enforcement? These laws were not voted on by the public. They were put in place by some "holier-than-thou" politicians who need extra money in the coffers by taking advantage of me being an electrician and taking MY money for a license.

#4 The legit contractors don't really want this piddy-anny work anyway. Plus, the contractors make plenty of money already. If they aren't making a bunch of money, then they need to find another business. My side-job ain't gonna break anybody. And I can use that money to pay for %#&*^ $4 a gallon gas.

#5 Actually I am doing a good deed for old Miss Meyers cuz she is on a fixed income and can't afford 60 bucks an hour to have that switch replaced.

Like I said, I am too lazy to do side jobs.
 
I just got back to the computer... was thinking about something that needed to be said.

Definition of side job (for me) = minor residential add a plug here, change a luminaire there, that kind of stuff, ceiling fan. Most likely I wouldn't take it upon myself to rebuild a service and I certainly wouldn't build a commercial service somewhere.

Hey, maybe if farmer brown needed a new outlet for the pecan cracker at his road-side stand, maybe. So I'm not talking about boot-legging some big job.... just taking care of miss meyers ya know.

Like I said, I don't do it anyway.

Edit: correct typo
 
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emahler said:
Any legal, licensed Contractors (not journeymen) from the great state of Texas wish to comment?
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How about you comment on it. I answered your question, and now you want to throw me to the wolves? All I did was innocently answer your question about which you have been so persistent. I thought I was doing you a favor by answering. I don't do side jobs, so you ain't about to crucify my rear end.
 
crossman said:
I just got back to the computer... was thinking about something that needed to be said.

Definition of side job (for me) = minor residential add a pl;ug here, change a luminaire there, that kind of stuff, ceiling fan. Most likely I wouldn't take it upon myself to rebuild a service and I certainly wouldn't build a commercial service somewhere.

Hey, maybe if farmer brown needed a new outlet for the pecan cracker at his road-side stand, maybe. So I'm not talking about boot-legging some big job.... just taking care of miss meyers ya know.

Like I said, I don't do it anyway.
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For many small shops those one outlet, and hang a fixture jobs, are the bread and butter work they do, and most of the time can make the difference of having a pay week or not, these are the very guys that the illegal side guys cut their neck, and in the process don't understand that the one outlet they install can be the one that kills or destroies someones home, or business it does not matter the size of the job, as to the risk taken, those little side jobs can kill and destroy just as easy as a big job.

As you said you don't do side jobs, but there are some out there that do, the licensed ones where states allow it can do all the side work they can stand, the problem comes in states where there are license rules, and they are just not followed, this is where the problems start, when someone decides the laws don't apply to them.
 
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satcom said:
those little side jobs can kill and destroy just as easy as a big job.
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Exactly. And the grandfather rule gave Master's licenses to some complete hacks who know very little. In fact, I saw with my own eyes and have witnesses where a so-called Texas master ran exposed #12 THHN conductors across a ceiling grid to supply switches and receptacles.

Give it ten or fifteen years, and the new state law may mean something. Right now, there is no guarantee that a licensed contrator in Texas has any business doing business.
 
crossman said:
Exactly. And the grandfather rule gave Master's licenses to some complete hacks who know very little. In fact, I saw with my own eyes and have witnesses where a so-called Texas master ran exposed #12 THHN conductors across a ceiling grid to supply switches and receptacles.

Give it ten or fifteen years, and the new state law may mean something. Right now, there is no guarantee that a licensed contrator in Texas has any business doing business.
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I would have to agree with you 100% After many years New Jersey just started enforcement a few years ago, and if the Tax department din't move on it, nothing would of happened. One thing in Jerseys favor is they had license testing since the 60's, so grandfathered licenses are long gone.
 
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crossman said:
How about you comment on it. I answered your question, and now you want to throw me to the wolves? All I did was innocently answer your question about which you have been so persistent. I thought I was doing you a favor by answering. I don't do side jobs, so you ain't about to crucify my rear end.
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not trying to...just wondering how licensed contractors think...i'm guessing there will be a difference of opinion...but honestly, i appreciate the answer, i think it will give lots of guys some food for thought...
 
satcom said:
I would have to agree with you 100% Jersey just started enforcement a few years ago, and if the Tax department din't move on it, nothing would of happened.
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The whole thing is amusing!

If we are talking about safety, there is no guarantee that a legally licensed hack is going to do the work properly, especially considering no state inspections. I can do electrical work just as safely as a legit contractor. Now, I don't have all the insurance and bonding and that is an issue.

If the law was designed such that the HacKs could not be licensed to do the work, and there was strict enforcement, then I feel most everyone would be content to stay within the law (well, except for the hacks who were denied licenses). But honestly, the law is, for lack of a better term, a joke right now.

As for the trunk-slammers taking money and food from the mouths of the legit contractors kids, it can be said that the state has set up an arbitrary system which takes money out of the mouths of the trunk-slammers kids and gives it to the legit hack contractors.

But not to worry, before all you legit struggling contractors get your panties in a wad, I am just having fun with this actually.
 
crossman said:
Plus, the contractors make plenty of money already. If they aren't making a bunch of money, then they need to find another business.
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Why has this misconception become so prevalent? We are not all huge corporations building power plants and hydro-electric dams across the country.

Some of us are just small shops trying to make a decent living.
 
crossman said:
But not to worry, before all you legit struggling contractors get your panties in a wad, I am just having fun with this actually.
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My last post wasn't aimed at you personally Crossman, it just seems that alot of guys think just cause your a contractor you must be rolling in the dough. I personally would probably make the same if not more if I worked for someone else, without 10 times the headache.

Edit to add: But I love what I do.
 
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tmbrk said:
My last post wasn't aimed at you personally Crossman, it just seems that alot of guys think just cause your a contractor you must be rolling in the dough. I personally would probably make the same if not more if I worked for someone else, without 10 times the headache.
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I appreciate that, tmbrk. Thank you.

And, I fully realize how hard it is to make it as a legit small EC. I have a friend who was one! He recently went back to working for someone else... and for the reasons you state. He makes more money, has better benefits, and way less headache. About the only thing he gave up was a little freedom about being in charge of himself and his time.
 
cschmid said:
LMAO man you got this down..feed the fish a scarce amount of food and it creates a feeding frenze...
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let me ask you a question....did this thread make you think?
 
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