who supplies the meter??

[infantryldr]

Hi

We do not do any residential but picked up a service upgrade on a 100 yr old home. We are replacing old 60 amp fuses with 125 amp box. I need to replace the meter socket and add a mask. Does the utility replace the the meter? also after I do my tempory splice into the drop for the inspection do I just add knife fuses in leu of the meter?? I know alot of you guys do this daily. Thanks

 

[stud696981]

You need to check with your POCO. Most that I am familiar with provide the meter can. The old meter should plug into the new 125amp can. If not ask the POCO what they prefer.

 

[jeff43222]

Around here, the EC provides the meter socket. It must meet PoCo specs for them to connect.

For a service upgrade, I just plug the old meter into the new socket and temp into the PoCo's lines so they will have power until the PoCo comes out and makes the connection permanent.

Putting a jumper between the meter slots is known as theft of electricity, which I don't recommend. PoCo doesn't like that approach, either.

 

[LarryFine]

Also check with the electrical inspector at the local building department where you apply for the permit. It's not the same everywhere. If possible, I recommend talking directly with the inspector who covers this locale.

In these parts, the POCO supplies the meter bases free and we install them. We're responsible for the load side, they do the line side (except for co-ops, where we have to wire up to the weatherhead, but they make up the meter).

For temporary re-energization, we usually re-feed the load-side of the old meter to the load-side of the new meter base (using the load lugs as split-bolts), and it stays like that until inspection notifies the POCO.

We need to make it somewhat safe to leave hot, so we try to leave no openings, usually with duct tape. Keep in mind that the new breaker is (not) protecting the old service cable until the POCO runs the new line-side.

I strongly suggest not attempting to insert fuses or anything else except a meter into a meter socket.

 

[LarryFine]

For a service upgrade, I just plug the old meter into the new socket and temp into the PoCo's lines so they will have power until the PoCo comes out and makes the connection permanent.

I dislike this approach because you have to work at least some part hot, whether it's at the drop or at the meter base. That is how I was told to do it as a helper, using Tomic connectors as temporary split bolts to re-energize. (See this thread.) I hated doing it.

We leave both line and load conductors in the old base (shortening the load cable as required) and simply connect the load tails to the new conductors to the main. The meter acts as our disconnect, so we don't have to handle any hot conductors or connections.

 

[iwire]

infantryldr as you can see it is very different from area to area and power company to power company.

The only way to know how it works at the address you are doing the upgrade at is to talk directly with both the inspector and the power company.

You should try the web site of the power company you will be working with, most post a down loadable 'Green Book' with all their requirements.

 

[goldstar]

I just want to add to what my other colleagues have already mentioned. If you have an existing meter socket, after installing the new meter pan the existing meter should fit right into the new socket. However, if you have one of the old tombstone type meter sockets you will need a meter adapter which your POCO will supply. If this is the case, open up the back of the meter adapter and make sure you become familiar with the internal wiring scheme so that you don't cross phases when you wire it to the old meter. Make sure you wire this first before you bug or crimp to the triplex. The meter adapter fits into the meter socket but the old meter will hang on the front plate. The POCO will change out the meter after they get the "cut-in" card from the inspector.

 

[iwire]

will need a meter adapter which your POCO will supply. If this is the case,

Phil, that is interesting I never heard of such a thing.

Here if the old meter does not fit they install a new meter.

My point here again is this.

THERE ARE NO STANDARD POWER COMPANY SERVICE CHANGE PROCEDURES.....NONE.....NOT ABOUT ANY OF IT, EVERY AREA IS DIFFERENT.


Checking with the local inspector and power company is a must or at the least another EC in that city or town.

 

[infinity]

Phil is right on the money. Many of the old meters around here are 60 amp with 4 terminals to land the line and load conductors (they're not a plug-in type). These do not fit into a new plug-in style meter pan. The POCO's have an adapter. Basically it's a blank piece of plastic with 4 stabs on the back that plug into the meter pan. Out of the bottom are 4 pieces of #6 conductor that terminate on the old meters' terminals. There's even a hook or bolt at the top of the adapter that the old meter can hang on. Also as Phil mentioned some of these adapters are for really old 120 volt services, so you need to look at their configuration to make sure that you're using the right one.

 

[iwire]

I was not saying Phil was full of it, I am sure he is correct in his area.

But we do not know that the opening poster lives near Phil.

How does any of the area specific info help the opening poster?

IMO it only serves to confuse the issue as none of it may apply to the OP.

 

[emahler]

unless you are doing this service for some overriding reason (family friend, community favor, etc) my suggestion would actually be to walk away. Pass it along to a contractor who does residential.

Unless you plan on getting into the residential mix, it will be a waste of your time and money. The hoops you will jump through and the learning curve will not allow you to make any money. Your employees (who are commericial/industrial type based on your post) will not be happy doing this residential install.

Add to that, it's a 100+ year old house. There will be problems. Most likely overloaded circuits throughout the house. So you will either get sucked in to fixing them (which is not your forte) or you'll get so frustrated from the hoops with the service that you'll throw your hands up and walk away. This will negate most any overriding circumstance that you may be hoping to acheive.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying you can make more money someplace else with less headaches.

Good luck.

 

[infinity]

I was not saying Phil was full of it, I am sure he is correct in his area.

But we do not know that the opening poster lives near Phil.

How does any of the area specific info help the opening poster?

IMO it only serves to confuse the issue as none of it may apply to the OP.

I didn't mean to imply anything and I agree that you gave the proper advice. Different POCO's have different rules. Bob said it best:

THERE ARE NO STANDARD POWER COMPANY SERVICE CHANGE PROCEDURES.....NONE.....NOT ABOUT ANY OF IT, EVERY AREA IS DIFFERENT.


Checking with the local inspector and power company is a must or at the least another EC in that city or town.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

emahler,

That is good advice.

 

[77401]

Another post where the OP never jumps back in to the thread. This guy is not an electrician or EC, He is a Business owner (non residential). What does that exactly mean? Commercial cleaning company? LOL
He's in over his head.

 

[goldstar]

Bob,

Next time I run into one of these tombstone type meter installations I'll try to take some pictures and post them. We have many up in the lake community I'm in. I have 4 POCO's serving the two counties that I primarily work in. They each have their own set of rules. Most are similar but some are so far out of sinc with the others that you need each of their installation manuals to make sure you install to their specs.

Regards,

Phil

BTW, not to change the subject but do any of the POCO's in your area make you change the strain relief hook to a porcelain insulator (on existing installations when you're doing an upgrade) ?

 

[jeff43222]

For a service upgrade, I just plug the old meter into the new socket and temp into the PoCo's lines so they will have power until the PoCo comes out and makes the connection permanent.

I dislike this approach because you have to work at least some part hot, whether it's at the drop or at the meter base. That is how I was told to do it as a helper, using Tomic connectors as temporary split bolts to re-energize. (See this thread.) I hated doing it.

We leave both line and load conductors in the old base (shortening the load cable as required) and simply connect the load tails to the new conductors to the main. The meter acts as our disconnect, so we don't have to handle any hot conductors or connections.

I agree that it would be nice to do it that way, but often the only good place to put the new meter socket is right where the old one is. So I have rip everything out before I even start, and then I get to bring in my generator so I have power for my rotary hammer and hammer drill. Once I'm done, I use Burndy clamps to temp into the overhead service. The nice thing about those is that I don't have to strip the PoCo's hot wires; the teeth go through the insulation. The last thing I want to do is strip hot triplex up on a ladder while a bare messenger wire is swinging around.

 

[LarryFine]

I agree that it would be nice to do it that way, but often the only good place to put the new meter socket is right where the old one is.

When that's where the new meter will be going, we just pull the old one off the wall and let it hang beside the new base, and jumper them together.

So I have rip everything out before I even start, and then I get to bring in my generator so I have power for my rotary hammer and hammer drill.

I made a portable temporory power board with four 50a insulated clamps feeding a 2-space breaker box feeding a pair of GFCI receptacles.

We try to either use the power tools before we start or after we re-energize to drive the rods.

 

[jeff43222]

I agree that it would be nice to do it that way, but often the only good place to put the new meter socket is right where the old one is.

When that's where the new meter will be going, we just pull the old one off the wall and let it hang beside the new base, and jumper them together.

So then you have to make a second trip to demo the old stuff after the PoCo comes out? The way I do them, I'm totally finished before the inspector or PoCo sees my work.

So I have rip everything out before I even start, and then I get to bring in my generator so I have power for my rotary hammer and hammer drill.

I made a portable temporory power board with four 50a insulated clamps feeding a 2-space breaker box feeding a pair of GFCI receptacles.

We try to either use the power tools before we start or after we re-energize to drive the rods.

I'd prefer to use the power tools while there is still power, but there's still the same problem of having to do work where the existing installation is. If I get the existing stuff out of the way, I pretty much have to disconnect power.

I do like the idea of a temporary power board, but I've already got a generator.

 

[infinity]

When doing a service change one of the first things we do it disconnect the old service. Then to the service lateral we splice on a drop consisting of a lampholder with a 20 amp plug fuse in it and a GFCI protection device. Now we can run all of the power tools that we need. With over 100 change outs we still haven't blown that same 20 amp fuse.

 

[77401]

Wow... y'all sure do make it complicated.
Service change outs I disconnect the service drop first. Wire nut on a 15 foot piece if 14-2 with a handy box & duplex receptacle on the end. Never kept a count of how many times I've used this but its been in use since at least 1990 with out a problem.