Why is Knoxville and East Tennessee exempt from following the NEC?

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James L said:
I haven't seen the series, but I've been in the Ozarks a few times. Unspeakable.

And I know a guy who wires houses in the Ozarks....WOW

Makes my eye sockets hurt. I've never elsewhere seen such atrocious work and heinous violations
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That’s where I saw a swim-up bar located in the center of a pool powered by exposed NM dropped from a messenger cable. I got out of the pool as soon as I saw it!
 
retirede said:
My comment was based on the population. I’ve never heard of an urban area with over 400,000 residents called a “small town.” But I do get your point!
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There was a guy at work from India that said he was from a small town. After a while someone asked him what the population of his town was. He said 2 million. :)
 
electrofelon said:
Mods: I don't think I am being political here, just pretty much stating facts and my experience.

I don't think you can make any valid generalization about electrical trade regulation and permitting vs red and blue. Although it is tempting to think that red States and people wouldn't support mass/state regulation of what someone needs to do to earn a living and what they can do on their property, I don't think you will find such a correlation looking at red and blue States. For example, I am in NY, clearly a blue state, which does not have State licensing and geographically I bet only 5% of the state is covered by local licensing. My county essentially doesn't have a electrical permits. There are broad exceptions for building permits for "agricultural buildings". I built a 16x55 "solar shed" with 70 panels on the roof with no permits. My house does not have a building permit. The assessor did see it on the aerial maps several years ago and increased my assessment to the "with improvements" category but thats it. No one cares. Show me the "long" list of "red states" where I can do all this. IMO "red" has nothing to do at all with "small government" anymore.
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I’m in a red state. State licensing and you better not be caught without a permit.
 
electrofelon said:
And probably rightfully so, NYC is one of the densest cities out there and I think generally it's reasonable to have more rules and regulations in higher populated areas.

I also do significant work in Seattle Washington, which being a city is of course like pretty much all of them pretty highly regulated trade-wise. I really can't say that I see better quality work there then here where it is very unregulated.
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Yeah, they're pretty dense alright,...oh, you meant population density. My bad. ;)
 
retirede said:
My comment was based on the population. I’ve never heard of an urban area with over 400,000 residents called a “small town.” But I do get your point!
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I had a helper from New York City, and he kept calling Kansas City a small town.

I'm like...dude, there's almost 2 milli9n people in the metro area 😅😅
 
retirede said:
That’s where I saw a swim-up bar located in the center of a pool powered by exposed NM dropped from a messenger cable. I got out of the pool as soon as I saw it!
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That's everywhere there 😅😅

Romex strung through trees, thhn laying in ponds to power fountains, 18 gauge lamp cord spliced 30 times on a 20 amp circuit.....
 
electrofelon said:
I guess it's what you are used to. I was born here and lived here practically all my life, so this seems like normal USA to me. What doesn't seem like USA to me, is most other areas where you need permission to do just about everything.
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In the USA, everything ought to be permitted, inspected and very thoroughly regulated. Whatever you're "used to" is certainly a lame thing to say. Everyone, but especially all electricians should exhibit exceptional care and outstanding quality in the work they perform. Those that cannot do so should never be in this trade. Don't forget that there is truly only one bible on this planet, and it is the NEC. Just pretend that for each and every code violation an electrician creates, they should be hit with a lightning bolt. How many dead "electricians" would there be? Honestly, in the USA there is no excuse for this crap.
 
retirede said:
My comment was based on the population. I’ve never heard of an urban area with over 400,000 residents called a “small town.” But I do get your point!
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If 400,000 is a small town, what do you call all those around here that are only 800-1200 and some even only 100 - 600?

We do have one incorporated village in NE with a population of one. Used to be two until the husband died several years ago.
 
kwired said:
If 400,000 is a small town, what do you call all those around here that are only 800-1200 and some even only 100 - 600?

We do have one incorporated village in NE with a population of one. Used to be two until the husband died several years ago.
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I’m not the one who called it a small town! Several in my county under 500.
 
Rgator53 said:
In the USA, everything ought to be permitted, inspected and very thoroughly regulated.
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I think there are quite a few people who will disagree with you there, but it's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion.

Rgator53 said:
Whatever you're "used to" is certainly a lame thing to say.
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Why is it "lame"? It's just human behavior. If you were raised by a religious family chances are you will be religious. If you are raised by an atheist family chances are you will be atheist. If you learn the electrical trade in an area that doesn't use or allow SEU for services, you probably find it disgusting, if you learn the trade in the area where it's common, you probably think it's perfectly fine......
 
It’s up to the jurisdiction to decide how they wish to enforce the NEC unless the state requires the jurisdiction to enforce it. I do find myself as well that when I go to places like Georgia and Tennessee and just walk around I frequently see things that are violations all over the place. This even though states like Georgia are usually pretty quick at adopting the new version of the code. It doesn’t mean that they’re very good at enforcing it or that their contractors abide by it.
 
electrofelon said:
You would think there would be a lot more red states that wouldn't have licensing and all this permitting.... Never understood that.
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Why you say....
I must say coming from a blue state. Most contractors and inspectors who take pride in doing the right job I know are of the red persuasion and go with the whole permit and licensing thing. It gets rid of the riff raff. The blue municipality building department employees and licensing are of the blue looking for the permit and licensing fee money.

Not political cause we're not going there right?
Just my observation.
 
Rgator53 said:
In the USA, everything ought to be permitted, inspected and very thoroughly regulated. Whatever you're "used to" is certainly a lame thing to say. Everyone, but especially all electricians should exhibit exceptional care and outstanding quality in the work they perform. Those that cannot do so should never be in this trade. Don't forget that there is truly only one bible on this planet, and it is the NEC. Just pretend that for each and every code violation an electrician creates, they should be hit with a lightning bolt. How many dead "electricians" would there be? Honestly, in the USA there is no excuse for this crap.
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Cletis, is that you?
 
electrofelon said:
I think there are quite a few people who will disagree with you there, but it's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion.


Why is it "lame"? It's just human behavior. If you were raised by a religious family chances are you will be religious. If you are raised by an atheist family chances are you will be atheist. If you learn the electrical trade in an area that doesn't use or allow SEU for services, you probably find it disgusting, if you learn the trade in the area where it's common, you probably think it's perfectly fine......
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"If you learn the electrical trade in an area that doesn't use or allow SEU for services, you probably find it disgusting, if you learn the trade in the area where it's common, you probably think it's perfectly fine......"

This is exactly what I mean by a "lame" thought process! What on earth don't you all understand about the word "National"? Everywhere within the 50 States is "National". Electrical work should look the same and be done the same, strictly by the NEC everywhere in the USA. The NEC is essentially a law book and if one cannot follow it, they ought to be fined, jailed, and/or put out of business, period. When I am performing electrical work I pretend that there is an inspector watching my every move.

When I do my service work, I sometimes could be putting my life on the line and when I leave, I have forever put other people's lives on the line. I have wired hundreds of homes and buildings, meaning that my work is now responsible for thousands of lives for as long as those structures exist. "Electricians" that cannot think that way no matter where in the USA they are, should not be electricians. There's no valid excuse for poor workmanship and code violations by anyone that considers themselves to be an actual electrician. I don't see how this can even be debatable by any licensed electrician. (And you're not an electrician until you obtain a state license.)
 
The thing is, I can design a power system that follows the code to a letter while being dangerous to life and property, where as on the flip side I can design a power system with 20 code violations having it be safer and more reliable than the average.
 
Rgator53 said:
"If you learn the electrical trade in an area that doesn't use or allow SEU for services, you probably find it disgusting, if you learn the trade in the area where it's common, you probably think it's perfectly fine......"

This is exactly what I mean by a "lame" thought process! What on earth don't you all understand about the word "National"? Everywhere within the 50 States is "National". Electrical work should look the same and be done the same, strictly by the NEC everywhere in the USA. The NEC is essentially a law book and if one cannot follow it, they ought to be fined, jailed, and/or put out of business, period. When I am performing electrical work I pretend that there is an inspector watching my every move.

When I do my service work, I sometimes could be putting my life on the line and when I leave, I have forever put other people's lives on the line. I have wired hundreds of homes and buildings, meaning that my work is now responsible for thousands of lives for as long as those structures exist. "Electricians" that cannot think that way no matter where in the USA they are, should not be electricians. There's no valid excuse for poor workmanship and code violations by anyone that considers themselves to be an actual electrician. I don't see how this can even be debatable by any licensed electrician. (And you're not an electrician until you obtain a state license.)
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I never said anything about not following code or doing shoddy work or cutting corners. We were discussing the legal, regulatory, and bureaucratic structures of licensing and permitting. I guess I never specifically stated it, but I thought it was obvious that I just think these structures are not very effective and don't accomplish much, not that I don't want them so I can freely cut corners.

There is no state licensing here in New York, and I'm pretty sure there are some real electricians here.

For about 20 years I have been working in two very different areas,. One is very highly regulated in licensing and permitting, and the other is polar opposite. I really can't say that one has better quality work or electricians than the other.
 
ritelec said:
Why you say....
I must say coming from a blue state. Most contractors and inspectors who take pride in doing the right job I know are of the red persuasion and go with the whole permit and licensing thing. It gets rid of the riff raff. The blue municipality building department employees and licensing are of the blue looking for the permit and licensing fee money.

Not political cause we're not going there right?
Just my observation.
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It just seems like that additional governmental department, oversight, and requirements that would come with licensing permitting and inspections would be something the reds would be more opposed to than the blues, that's all. maybe I'm just a little politically naive, maybe that would be more of a libertarian thing.

I believe most permitting and inspection fees are used to cover the costs of the program . I don't think they end up with a surplus which is funneled into the general fund with the program being a "money maker" for the city or state..... At least I am nearly certain that's the way it is for the department of construction and inspections in the city of Seattle, and the Washington State department of labor and industries (which does inspections at the state level where there is no local department with a program).
 
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