Why is residential wiring known as single phase?

[Rick Christopherson]

So it is a physical fact, not just a mathematical equivalent, that we have 0? voltages and 180? voltages across the windings. The difference is which reference frame you use, but both are physical realities.

In other words, we have both in-phase voltages and phase-opposed voltages at the transformer.

Works for me.

Whoa. I hadn't seen this posting from Mivey. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Mivey has been very careful to not say something that will draw me out of the woodwork, but surely he must know that this would.

The phase angles are mathematical, not real. So with this quotation, the same question I posed to Rattus is now posed to Mivey.

If either one of them need a reminder of the question, then I will go dig for it, but it is quite a few pages back. They both ignored the question at the time, so I assume they have no interest in me wasting the time to go dig for it.

Retract the statements, or answer my question!

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

I am sure that is a typo, but V1n + Vn1 = 0, V1n + Vn2 = V12 = V1n - V2n

I meant that V1n and V2n drive the split phase loads.

Yes.You are correct.It is a typo.
Whether it is Vn2 or V2n that drives the split phase loads can be ascertained by measuring the current in the neutral.The neutral current is the difference of currents in the hot conductors.So it is Vn2 that drives its loads at same moment the V1n drives its own loads.

 

[Besoeker]

Yes.It is my humble ?? opinion that because of your that misunderstanding,you do not admit that 120/240v supply is a single phase supply!

So you want me to admit something that I have clearly demonstrated not to be the case? So that you can check my understanding?

How about you explain how I get this from single phase?

So that I can check your understanding?

Or how it is possible to get hexaphase from just three so that we can make things like this?

How about you explain how that works?

 

[Besoeker]

The phase angles are mathematical, not real.

If they weren't real I couldn't get this:

From this:

But I can.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

How about you explain how I get this from single phase?

Be very careful with what you say here. This statement comes very close to putting you into the same query as Rattus and Mivey. Do you wish to be included?

Edit: never mind, I guess you do.

 

[Besoeker]

Be very careful with what you say here.

I always try to take with what I post here and elsewhere.
I have given lots of real life examples, actual drawings, waveforms etc which I can because I have real life experiences to draw on.
Of course there are those who don't agree with my stance on this. That's fair enough. But I have yet to say any of those, including yourself, reciprocate with real life real information of their own.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

I have clearly demonstrated not to be the case

You don't.To get enlightenment on this issue,I recommend again you wholeheartedly make an attempt to answer the question at post#881.I am not kidding.This is serious,my friend-cum-mentor.

 

[Besoeker]

You don't.To get enlightenment on this issue,I recommend again you wholeheartedly make an attempt to answer the question at post#881.I am not kidding.This is serious,my friend-cum-mentor.

The circuit in post #1004 has both AC and DC.
Explain how that that would be possible from just one phase.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

If they weren't real I couldn't get this:

Since you are here first, then here is the original question:

If the phase angles were real and not mathematical, then your scope images should show a noise anomaly that exists on the positive peak of the primary winding on both secondary waveforms at their positive peaks too. If this were simply an inversion (which it is), then that noise anomaly would appear on both positive and negative peaks simultaneously.

Since this question has apparently gone unnoticed from you guys for over a week, I think it best to make sure it does not slip past your purview again. So I will make it more obvious:

Rattus, Mivey, Besoeker

Answer my Question!

If you claim this is a real phase shift and not mathematical, then explain why your scope does not show a noise artifact at the same 180 degree shift?

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

The circuit in post #1004 has both AC and DC.
Explain how that that would be possible from just one phase.

You were questioned first.Please reply first.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

If you claim this is a real phase shift and not mathematical, then explain why your scope does not show a noise artifact at the same 180 degree shift?

I do not understand what you are saying.More details possible?

 

[Besoeker]

Since you are here first, then here is the original question:

If the phase angles were real and not mathematical, then your scope images should show a noise anomaly that exists on the positive peak of the primary winding on both secondary waveforms at their positive peaks too. If this were simply an inversion (which it is), then that noise anomaly would appear on both positive and negative peaks simultaneously.

The noise would appear on all three waveforms at the same time.
Now, how would the circuit in #1004 work if there was only one phase?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The noise would appear on all three waveforms at the same time.
Now, how would the circuit in #1004 work if there was only one phase?

I don't give a Rattus about your ego! Get over it.

What I do care about is that you just confirmed that the phase shift is mathematical, not real.

Don't ever repeat that it is otherwise. The three of you are the primary reason why this thread exists in the first place, let alone has reached 1000 posts.

 

[Besoeker]

You were questioned first.Please reply first.

Mivey already answered in post #882. You didn't like that answer. You prodded me to give you an answer and I told you I agreed with Mivey. You didn't like that either. You asked about the numbers and I answered that but, once again you didn't accept that.
So what about you providing the answer you think would be acceptable so that others may learn from your knowledge.
Now, how would the circuit in #1004 work if there was only one phase?

 

[Besoeker]

What I do care about is that you just confirmed that the phase shift is mathematical, not real.

I have confirmed what happens in reality.

Don't ever repeat that it is otherwise.

If it wasn't real, the circuit in #1004 wouldn't work.
But it does.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

It's amazing how good you can be without actually admitting you did anything wrong. Bravo!

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Mivey already answered in post #882. You didn't like that answer. You prodded me to give you an answer and I told you I agreed with Mivey. You didn't like that either. You asked about the numbers and I answered that but, once again you didn't accept that.

I want to submit that I gave you multiple chances to prove your understanding of differences between AC and DC voltages.You simply dodged.I humbly submit you better try once more.

Now, how would the circuit in #1004 work if there was only one phase?

How do you say there are two phases?
.

 

[mivey]

If you reject this mathematical equality, then you can't even claim that you have an "apparent" phase shift, let alone a "real" one.

I did not think he was disputing the math. The math is straighforward. I even showed how you can do it using Euler's identities.

I read this:

I still don't understand how one can remove a negative sign from an equation such as,
sin(wt + 180) = -sin(wt)

To be asking:
How can you remove the negative sign from "sin(wt + 180) = -sin(wt)" and get "sin(wt + 180) = sin(wt)"

 

[mivey]

But it is not unique:if 120/240v supply has it,120V supply also does.Correct?

A 120/240 volt supply has two voltages. There you can have one set of voltages with a 0? difference or you can have a set of voltages with a 180? difference.

A 120 volt supply has one voltage. To get a set of 120 volt voltages that you could use to make 120/240 voltages, you would need to run the flux through a transformer or set of isolation transformers. Not what we are talking about.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

A 120 volt supply has one voltage.

Surely you are talking about RMS voltage in a 120V single phase supply.In that case it has only one voltage.But think of the 120 v A.c supply as generator of voltage wave.In this case it can generate two voltage waves with 180 degree displacement by reversing the measuring leads.